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SPORTS NUTRITION EP. 4
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Join us as we explore optimal fueling and hydration strategies for winter training rides and eSports events together with the renowned sports performance nutritionist Dani Hofstetter.
In this episode, we discuss hydration strategies for varying conditions, from cold outdoor rides to warm indoor eSports events. Dani shares best practices for staying hydrated during cold rides, optimizing fluid intake, and maintaining performance during indoor riding and ultra eSports events. We discuss effective post-training recovery techniques and how alcohol can impact performance.
If you’re seeking specific, expert-backed fueling advice, the Castelli Sports Nutrition series is your source to help fuel your biological machine. It covers a wide variety of information about a healthy cycling lifestyle for athletes of all abilities and training levels.
In this episode, we discuss hydration strategies for varying conditions, from cold outdoor rides to warm indoor eSports events. Dani shares best practices for staying hydrated during cold rides, optimizing fluid intake, and maintaining performance during indoor riding and ultra eSports events. We discuss effective post-training recovery techniques and how alcohol can impact performance.
If you’re seeking specific, expert-backed fueling advice, the Castelli Sports Nutrition series is your source to help fuel your biological machine. It covers a wide variety of information about a healthy cycling lifestyle for athletes of all abilities and training levels.
TOPICS COVERED & GUEST
(00:00) Introduction
(02:01) Winter Riding: Hydration and Fueling
(7:27) Indoor Riding, Zwift: Hydration and Fueling
(12:07) Dressing for Indoor Riding
(14:32) Post-Ride Refueling
(17:12) Alcohol and Performance
(21:46) Window of Opportunity
(27:41) Importance of Sufficient Protein Intake
(28:38) Get in Touch with Dani
(29:44) YoloMites5000
(32:57) Ending
– GUEST –
Dani Hofstetter has been fueling champions for over 20 years. He holds the IOC Diploma in Sports Nutrition, awarded by the International Olympic Committee as part of the program of the IOC Medical and Scientific Commission. Throughout his career, he has collaborated with a wide spectrum of athletes, from World Tour cyclists to mountaineers and everyday amateur cyclists.
CONNECT
Dani Hofstetter bio
LinkedIn
Instagram
Strava
– HOST –
Søren Jensen, Global Marketing Manager at Castelli, has been working for this iconic brand since 2006. You can usually find him riding the backroads and dirt trails, testing new gear in the Italian Dolomites. If you can't find him there, check the Castelli Headquarters in Fonzaso.
CONNECT
LinkedIn
– LINKS –
YoloMites5000
Velo Article
Holimites, book you YoloMites5000 Trip
SEND US YOUR QUESTIONS If you want your questions to be answered on air, be sure to submit your questions by sending us a message on social media or by email to podcast@castelli-cycling.com
________
Follow Castelli on social:
Instagram
Instagram Triathlon
Facebook
We're also on STRAVA
(02:01) Winter Riding: Hydration and Fueling
(7:27) Indoor Riding, Zwift: Hydration and Fueling
(12:07) Dressing for Indoor Riding
(14:32) Post-Ride Refueling
(17:12) Alcohol and Performance
(21:46) Window of Opportunity
(27:41) Importance of Sufficient Protein Intake
(28:38) Get in Touch with Dani
(29:44) YoloMites5000
(32:57) Ending
– GUEST –
Dani Hofstetter has been fueling champions for over 20 years. He holds the IOC Diploma in Sports Nutrition, awarded by the International Olympic Committee as part of the program of the IOC Medical and Scientific Commission. Throughout his career, he has collaborated with a wide spectrum of athletes, from World Tour cyclists to mountaineers and everyday amateur cyclists.
CONNECT
Dani Hofstetter bio
Strava
– HOST –
Søren Jensen, Global Marketing Manager at Castelli, has been working for this iconic brand since 2006. You can usually find him riding the backroads and dirt trails, testing new gear in the Italian Dolomites. If you can't find him there, check the Castelli Headquarters in Fonzaso.
CONNECT
– LINKS –
YoloMites5000
Velo Article
Holimites, book you YoloMites5000 Trip
SEND US YOUR QUESTIONS If you want your questions to be answered on air, be sure to submit your questions by sending us a message on social media or by email to podcast@castelli-cycling.com
________
Follow Castelli on social:
Instagram Triathlon
We're also on STRAVA
TRANSCRIPT
SOREN JENSEN
Hello folks and welcome back to the Castelli Podcast. I hope you had a great Christmas and are enjoying the outdoors, either by foot or participating in the iconic Festive Cycling Challenge or riding indoors during the Castelli Zwift Sosa Rides. There are many. In today's episode, we will delve into a crucial topic for this time of the year, ideal fueling and hydration for long winter training rides and eSports events such as the Castelli Zwift Series. We'll also discuss the impact of alcohol on sports performance, highlighting how moderate alcohol consumption can help reduce stress in the brain and promote relaxation. Joining us is renowned sports performance nutritionist Danny Hofstetter. Danny has been fueling champions for over 20 years. He holds the IOC diploma in sports nutrition awarded by the International Olympic Committee as part of the program of the IOC Medical and Scientific Commission. Throughout his career he has collaborated with a wide spectrum of athletes from world tour cyclists to mountaineers and everyday amateur cyclists. This episode marks our fourth episode on sports nutrition. So if you missed the other last episodes, I highly recommend you start there, where we cover the importance of incorporating fresh vegetables, fruits, fibers, carbohydrates, and proteins into your diet. We also touched on fueling strategies for endurance events, sports drinks, animal versus plant-based proteins, the gluten debate, nutrition myth, and the importance of a healthy gut, not just for athletes but for everyone's well-being. Well, let's get started with this week's episode. Welcome Dani to today's podcast. We are very excited to have you back on the pod with us.
DANI HOFSTETTER
My pleasure, Soren.
SOREN JENSEN
It's easy to remember to drink enough during hot weather riding because, well, it's hot, you're sweating, and you're generally feeling thirsty. But what about when the temperature drops? You don't need as much fluid as you do on hot days because you're losing less of it and your body doesn't have to work as hard to keep your core cool. But it can be surprisingly easy to get dehydrated. Cyclists simply forget to drink because their drinks are cold. So while you may not feel thirsty 2 hours into a cool ride, you may find yourself feeling kind of sapped or like you are having an off day, because you are getting dehydrated without realizing it. I remember most of my winter rides in Denmark back in the day with temperatures below zero, I would always pour boiling water, sodium and some moderate sports drink into my thermal bottles before leaving for my 4-5 hour weekend rides with the club and get more calories from food along the way. Danny, what recommendations do you have on easy ways to trick yourself into drinking enough when you otherwise may not feel like drinking?
DANI HOFSTETTER
It's like so much it's a habit like you have to get used to and then stick to it. Now we have bike computers where you can put the timer on it that's a reminder to drink every 15 minutes or so. And then it's also, I mean here we're talking to an expert, it's also a matter of clothing. If I have the shittiest gloves that I can barely hold my handlebar right or shift my levers, I don't want to drink because I drop my bottle, my friend crashes because of my bottle. I mean it's practical stuff like that, right? And then also another thing that's very important is having the right clothing or the right layering system because if you have the right clothes, then you have a certain breathability and you don't sweat as much. The less you sweat, the less fluid you need to replace. These are kind of the fundamentals. When it's cold, you can concentrate your beverage a bit higher, but be sure to stay beneath 8%, so that's 80 grams per liter if you use only simple sugars. If you want to increase the concentration up to 12%, you rely on a fancy carbohydrate blend of a modern carbohydrate blend, and have a 12% solution. So on a standardized large bike bottle, you're almost ending up at 90 grams. And then if you add a little bit of salt, because that's the secret that we put salt on the streets in order to avoid freezing. If you increase the sodium in your drink a little bit, then you avoid freezing bottles as well or you delay it a little bit.
SOREN JENSEN
You delay it, yeah. And also you encourage yourself to drink more.
DANI HOFSTETTER
Exactly. But don't overdo it because we don't want to have broth in our bottles or something really ugly, but that's something that's very good. And then, as I said, it's just, hey, keep doing it. You know how long you want to ride mostly, and then make sure after half time at least one bottle is empty. Or what I normally do is if I go for a five-hour ride, I know, okay, after three hours, my two bottles shall be totally empty. I need to refill and I plan where I do refill at a gas station or a restaurant. And, then you have kind of these milestones where you have reminders to stay on the drinking pace so to speak.
SOREN JENSEN
No, that's true. What I would do basically in Denmark when my water bottles would be completely frozen after 90 minutes of riding, so I would always try to at least finish like one where I would have my carbos in that bottle. So at least I would get that 60 to 90 grams. But it was a little bit of salt, as you mentioned. But more important, we would then with the team, we would then put down points on the map where we would stop either, you know, do for a coffee stop or just stop somewhere to where we could refill our bottles, warm ourselves up a little, maybe get some calories from real food. So that would keep us going, you know, the whole Sunday for four to six hours on those long endurance rides. DANI HOFSTETTER And another thing, if you have really long rides and super hard conditions, why not wearing a hydro pack underneath a kind of a bit of a larger jacket? Because then your body temperature avoids freezing and you can carry a lot of additional water with you. So that's something I normally do when we have long key training in winter. Obviously, you need to gauge the conditions and the effort anyway because at a certain point there is kind of this crossover between the costs of a training and the benefit. And that's normally when I decide to kind of split up a day, maybe do three hours indoors and three hours outdoors or stuff like that. It costs a bit of creativity.
SOREN JENSEN
It does. It does. Yeah. Then also talking about winter training, I would like to shift over to indoor riding or eSports. During winter, most of us are forced indoors when it's snowing outside for at least some of our training. This typically means spending many hours on the turbo trainer, treadmill or in the gym with a pool of salty sweat gradually soaking the carpet. You simply don't have as much airflow indoors as out. Even with a strong fan game, you'll be sweatier inside. Dani, what recommendations do you have to make sure we stay on top of our hydration?
DANI HOFSTETTER
I have to admit I'm not on Zwift. I've done one race or kind of an animated social ride with pros. That was the Uber Pretzel. It's a long one. We were riding for four and a half hours. I measured my sweat rate there, and I was somewhere around 1.8 liters an hour. I had no fan, no nothing, and it was quite a hard ride. that you lose easily five or six liters of fluid during long rides. So basically, one thing you need to be aware of is when the fluid loss exceeds 2% of your body weight, so I am 75 kilos approximately, 2% would be 1.5 kilos. So if I lose more than that, the performance is likely to decline. There are symptoms like headache, muscle cramping and stuff like that and you want to avoid that. So keep your fluid loss underneath these 2% range. That's not an exact kind of cutoff. Trained athletes can easily cope with 3 or 4% but their performance declines as well. They're just not kind of dead off the 2%, right? And then the good thing about indoor or eSports is normally you have plenty of space and again failing to plan is planning to fail. But if you prepare your bottles and maybe it's five or six bottles or you have your spouse or your girlfriend or your mom replacing them halftime into the ride, it's kind of a matter of organization. And I would definitely say if you're doing longer rides, have two bottles, one that's plain water and one that's your carbohydrates because you lose so much fluid. There's no need to only drink sports drinks. And then often, only to make this point as well, we don't need to overfill ourselves with carbohydrates. If we only go for an easy spin, then we don't die on such high refuel amounts. But I would say go with a lot of fluids, aim for at least 800 milliliters per hour, rather more, because if you're not having three professional fans cooling you down, your sweat rate is through the roof anyway. But in terms of drinking and nutrition, the energy you need is no different than when you ride outdoors. It's basically just the fluid needed that is much higher.
SOREN JENSEN
That is much higher, yeah. So add also the good carbon mix and add a bit of sodium, making sure that you show up I guess well hydrated and when finished, continue to drink to thirst and maybe add sodium to your drinks or food afterwards. Especially swift events can be extreme, can be many hours.
DANI HOFSTETTER
And just to finish up that point you mentioned afterwards, and that's a very good reminder, what I forgot to tell you is if you evaluated your sweat loss or your sweat rate, it takes about 150% of that absolute loss to replenish your liquid levels. So if you lost three liters of sweat, you need to refill them with 4.5 liters until you're kind of evening it out. That factors in the amount that you excrete already, like when refueling, because if you drink a lot, you have to pee a lot, but also it's kind of the osmotic processes that happens in your body. And these 150% are best refilled in the first two to four hours in order not to stall your recovery process. And then I actually feel much more comfortable, even if I'm not thrifting. Obviously I train indoors. I feel much more comfortable if I replace my jersey or my base layer after an hour, one and a half hours because I sweat rather intensely.
SOREN JENSEN
Correct. And then some people even replace the bibs because they don't want to have any skin issues and irritations. And you can feel the difference when you are sweating your way through a Zwift race or entering the dreaded 4th hour on your Uber Pretzel effort. Talking about the perfect kit for indoor riding, I mean any kit will do for a laid back 30-60 minute swift session. But when you are looking for maximum cooling and comfort, you will have to look beyond yesterday's worn out bib shorts. And while we talk riding indoors, Castelli has a line of lightweight products specifically designed for hot, intense indoor riding. As we know, when riding indoors, you simply don't have as much airflow as you have outside. Even with a strong fan game, you'll be sweatier inside. To avoid overheating and reducing your performance, the kit you wear needs to wick sweat from the skin while allowing air to ventilate both the skin, evaporating sweat and the clothing to keep it as dry as possible. You don't move around in the saddle as much indoors and you're not riding over rough surfaces, so the chamois doesn't need to absorb vibration, it just needs to provide a bit of anti-friction comfort. Therefore, in the Castelli bibs we use the Progetto X2 top layer known from high-end bibs, but in the Insider 2 bib shorts we use this super soft skin care layer with excellent moisture management instead of a thick, bulky and normal chamois which doesn't help anyone indoors. And also the Insider bibs have been designed to be as light as possible and to be as breathable as possible with no extra details needed. We use this super lightweight lycra fabric material which helps keep the bulk down, flexibility up and the excellent breathability needed to deal with the riding efforts. The bib straps are minimalistic with an open-knit design aiding breathability. The raw cut leg endings continue the minimalistic theme, offering a smooth and comfortable fit without excess bulk. And when looking at the jersey, the fabric is a 3D semi-open mesh which facilitates optimal airflow, ensuring you stay cool. And to maximize cooling, we kept the collar low and the waist short and added a couple of back pockets for storing your earpods, phone, headband or any essentials you bring to your indoor riding area. And I think in our Insider Collection, we have about eight different products in the Castelli line available for men and women. So for our listeners, go and check out the collection on castellicycling.com. But back to this week's episode, Dani, post-ride hydration. So let's just say we finished a high-volume training ride, an ultra event, or it could be even an Ironman or bikepacking as well. Tell me a little bit about how we can rehydrate ourselves and how much we can actually absorb.
DANI HOFSTETTER
That is not completely different from what we discussed during the exercise. So basically what we need in the first 60 to maybe 90 minutes after finishing the exercise is about 1.2 grams of carbohydrate per kilogram of body weight to start replenishing our glycogen recenter phase. And also we need to kind of spoil our muscles that we broke down and abused, so to speak, during exercise. And with 0.3 grams of easy digestible protein, that's mostly a supplement, can be whey, can be chocolate milk, cow's milk is something that's actually very good despite modern trends saying something different. Milk protein is basically very good in terms of essential amino acids and anabolic potential. And in terms of different beverages that we could consume during this phase, it's again the sports drinks because yes, they contain electrolytes, they contain easy absorbable carbohydrates, but maybe at one point you're tired of them. So what I like is a non-alcoholic beer because it has a bit of a sour or not so super sweet taste and it's fizzy, something I really like after hot days especially, and also mineral water, but something fizzy I consider very refreshing. And non-alcoholic beer is good. Fanta is something very good, so the sweet beverage because it contains fructose and after electrolyte, fructose beats up the liver glycogen resynthesis. And that's one point that's really decisive in recovery.
SOREN JENSEN
Yeah, that's a really good point.
DANI HOFSTETTER
Another thing because we lost a lot of sweat is broth. So you can make any kind of soup, noodle soup, rice soup, just plain broth. That's something that's really good and it's also kind of a good counterbalance to the sweet stuff you had. Most athletes crave something salty. Broth is ideal there.
SOREN JENSEN
Yeah, good recommendations. But now, you touched on non-alcoholic beer. So now I'm going to drag you back to that topic here just super briefly, alcohol. So using non-alcoholic drinks because we always think as an athlete, we try to stay away from alcohol in general or just having maybe one beer. Because I've heard a few guys, professional cyclists, telling me that Valverde, he used to have a cold beer on the bus after every single stage. Maybe this is just a myth, I don't know, but I kind of love it. I love this myth. And I think having a cold beer after every stage that he did, every race, because that's what he just enjoyed, that relaxing factor is just amazing and something I could relate to. What do you think about that with alcohol and just, you know, with a group of friends who come back from a long ride or a Gran Fondo or gravel event. Maybe just, I'm not saying that you're sitting there and just crashing four or five beers, but just having a beer, a pilsner, not even too high alcohol percentage after even a hard event. What do you think about that? What's your opinion?
DANI HOFSTETTER
Well, basically, alcohol, the substance, whether it's beer, wine, hard stuff, alcohol dehydrates. So after we've sweated already, the dehydration aspect of the alcohol is not beneficial in this situation but I think I mentioned it last time, we should never look at nutrition only through a functional lens but also on a social and emotional point of view. And here alcohol is fully loaded whether it's social or emotional and if the weekend warrior or well where they enjoy the beer and it helps them calm down, get over a hard day on the bike, then one beer doesn't affect your performance at all. We had this discussion at a recent seminar where the world's leading sports nutritionists gathered, and there is no research that can tell you that one beer or a glass of wine is detrimental to your performance or recovery. It's always a question of the amount. And I would put one asterisk there. We need to be aware that alcohol has a dangerous social acceptance and it also has peer pressure. So especially after a group ride with the guys, if you say, no, no, no, I'm good, I'm not drinking, you're kind of the weak rider that's not up to a glass of beer after a ride. And I think that's not a good dynamic, but obviously it's out there in certain cultures that's even more. But one drink after a race or after training doesn't harm your performance.
SOREN JENSEN
It doesn't harm your performance, no. And I think it goes when you talk about alcohol, I mean, if you go out there and have three or four beers after, it would affect your dehydration but also affect your sleep at night.
DANI HOFSTETTER
Oh yeah, big time. So alcohol is mostly considered as relaxing. Yes, that's true. But everyone that monitors their HRV or their sleep quality is super poor. And beneath that, with cycling, especially the ambitious cyclist, always is concerned about his watt per kilogram and you don't get slim and really low in your body fat if you have a regular alcohol consumption because alcohol has a negative effect on your fat metabolism.
SOREN JENSEN
That's right. And again, coming back to Valverde, I'm pretty sure that before he was putting himself there in the nice boss seat and just chilling with his beer, he probably already had his recovery shake with proteins and carbos and everything else before. So he was probably just chilling there and chilling in the boss eating his rice and his chicken, driving back to the hotel and enjoying his beer. So talking about rice and chicken for post-race training recovery. Talking about refueling, a lot of people, they always talk about this 20-30 minutes window where you need to get your carbs in, you need to get your proteins in and everything. And then it also extends all the way up to four hours just as long as you just keep adding glycogen and protein to your body. And you maybe take it through what, and now we had this example a few times of the Gran Fondo cyclist or gravel cyclist or triathlete, when they have finished the event, they get back home and just take us through all the steps that they should follow.
DANI HOFSTETTER
So the window is often called the window of opportunity because from a hormonal point of view, you can amplify recovery there decisively. But it's not only kind of 30 minutes, it's like I mentioned before, probably an hour, maybe even two. But if you tell an athlete, it's probably two hours, he most certainly doesn't manage to comply. So that's kind of the reason why we narrowed it down. If you say it's 45 minutes, he succeeds in sticking to 90 minutes. And what you need there is basically, again, a lot of carbohydrates, banishing your fluid losses and protein. The rule of thumb is 1.2 grams of carbohydrates per kilogram of body weight. That's simple sugar, that's not the whole grain bread, that's white rice, that's not quinoa because it contains a lot of fiber, it can be pasta, it can be white bread with honey, with peanut butter. Simple stuff, almost as you would need before exercise because this helps you in speeding up the recovery. Same goes for protein. And these two amounts, 1.2 grams of carbs, 0.3 grams of protein, occurs every two hours until you get your complete next meal. And a complete meal is carb-focused, has little vegetables, is low in fat because fat slows down the accessibility of the decisive nutrients, so protein and carbs. And then yes, we would be happy in having a good portion of protein, so 30 to 40 grams in total. That can be chicken, that can be fish, something light, probably not a steak or raw fish because that's digested again slower. But these are things that people normally do intuitively. So I know a few athletes that crave a steak right after the finish line, right? So maybe something salty and greasy, often then you see the burger or pizza cravings suboptimal because yes, too fatty and too low in carbs and protein, but it always depends what comes next. If you have the decisive time trial, then every second counts. And so we shouldn't go crazy as amateur athletes in wanting to copy what we see on television, in grand tours or on a professional level. But of course, our recovery is crucial as well because if I totally kill myself over the weekend and the first three weeks of the day, I am not performing at work, you probably end up getting the old look of your boss and you don't feel well. And also their consistency is king. So if you kill yourself on the weekend and the next three to four days of your training is not ideal, obviously you screwed up badly. And that's why recovery matters.
SOREN JENSEN
It does matter. I think there's some people that get a little surprised when they, especially on television, see those Grand Tour cyclists that after they cross the finish line, the first thing they grab is their energy drink or the protein shake before even hitting the podium. But they also have to perform on a different level and they will have a lot more of those micronutrients the following hours.
DANI HOFSTETTER
And then there are also very targeted supplements that they use to speed up recovery. Some are well-researched, others are more on the placebo side, but yes, I mean the system is very sophisticated and also quite costly, but that's nothing an amateur cyclist basically.
SOREN JENSEN
The key takeaways from our discussion today is not to limit ourselves to a single brand or type of sports drinks considering the effectiveness for all cycling or just sports activities in general. If you perfectly pair your sports drinks with your workout, you can boost your performance and recovery more quickly. And I would also suggest the listeners here who haven't listened to episode one and two of sports nutrition to go back to the November episodes and give them a listen because we are also covering their day-to-day nutrition, everything that is concerning fruits, vegetables, probiotics, fibers and the micronutrients. That was a really good interview we did back then just like the one today. And that was on Sports Nutrition episode 1. And if you go to Sports Nutrition episode 2, you will find us discussing protein and carb intake. But actually, Danny, one last question and one minute max. Wheat, protein powder and casein. I know the wheat is quicker and casein is more like overnight. But I was kind of surprised last week, but I kind of knew it. Also, the amount, just 1.2 grams of protein do we need a day. I mean, the recommended, as you said, daily intake is 0.8 and it's just like we do nothing. And if you just do like what we do everyday riding, you would still need that 1.5, 1.6. Yeah, exactly. And it's crazy high. I mean, you can spread that over the day, but I'm not eating enough eggs or nuts or meat and everything. So I would definitely need that supplement. Is it still a good supplement for the body? Can it become, I'm not saying immune to the powder proteins or...
DANI HOFSTETTER
No risk there. You'll notice it. The quality of the recovery and just performance overall is just better.
SOREN JENSEN
Yeah, no, it is. No, I definitely felt the difference when I started on. It took me a few weeks to start feeling it because I haven't touched any supplements. I'm not getting anything at all since I quit cycling many years ago. I stopped racing on high level and now coming back probably also due to my age is probably also there. And upping up on my carb intake has just helped me keep my mind running and my cycling more fun again. Even though you have a certain drag. Well, Danny, thank you again for joining us on the Castelli podcast. Danny, if somebody listening here wants to work with you, are you taking on clients and how best can they get in touch with you?
DANI HOFSTETTER
Yes, I do. I work not only in Switzerland but abroad. So technical means allow this very easy. I take on clients. easily on my website that's www.daniehofstetter.ch I'm sure we can put this in the show notes because it's a bit of a complicated German name. Hit me up. I often stress to my athletes it's like when you work with a coach kind of the interpersonal relationship and chemistry has to be right. That's why I talk to people when they want to work with me first and want to know whether they have a good feeling and then we take it from there. And it's always a pleasure to have this international clientele, of course.
SOREN JENSEN
It is, yeah. No, but definitely, Dan, I will track all the links in the show notes to your social and to your website. And again, folks, Danny, apart from being a very good old time friend here. Actually, we met doing a gravel event, more like an ultra event up in the Dolomites five, six years ago, the YoloMites5000, which is an event we always come back to and do every year, organized by Igor Tvela. It's a must for the bucket list. But Dan, you have done them all. You checked all the, what's that, seven editions so far?
DANI HOFSTETTER
Yeah. We started 2016 and I haven't missed a spot. So yeah, it's one of the best days in my cycling year.
SOREN JENSEN
It's fantastic, it is amazing. And it's also a social thing, it's not just, it's not a race, it's a ride, but a social ride. But more... It's an attitude. It's an attitude, because also maybe you want to explain to the listeners here what the whole Yolomites and then what the 5000 number means.
DANI HOFSTETTER
Yeah, the idea started from Igor Tavella, a friend of the brand, and Jared Gruber and Ashley Gruber. The Dolomites are one of the best playgrounds for cyclists globally, but unfortunately there is lots of traffic in these nice mountain areas. And Igor, as a former professional cyclocross rider, had the idea to ride all the most beautiful spots and sections of the Dolomites, but off the beaten path, so to speak. We started in 2016 when everybody was still riding rim brakes and 25cc tires, rode bikes of course, and rode pretty gnarly stuff. And then one, two, three years in, everybody was on disc brakes, was on a gravel bike. travel bike and it's kind of a beautiful development how you see the bike industry evolving. Yes, also because of very few people. And today, it's a very comfortable ride compared to what we've started with. Right, a few of us actually had compacts, real compact gearing on the bikes, you know, even though it's not that long time ago. Now you're right. And the 5000 is approximately 120 kms distance and we do pretty much accurate 5,000 meters of climbing. So you can do the math, it's either steep uphill or steep downhill. Exactly. But it's, as I said, very scenic and stunning views. Most special group that comes together and it's what makes cycling attractive to me.
SOREN JENSEN
Yeah, no, you're right. And for those of you who are thinking, oh boy, I've never done 5,000 meters of elevation in one ride in my life. No worries. I mean, there are also smaller groups doing the mini Yolo Mites, which is usually around 2,500 to 3,000 meters of elevation. So still a big ride, less kilometers, of course, but less elevation. But the first part of the ride or the first half of the ride, we usually all stay together and then the group splits after we have had lunch. So a good day for everyone also when we all come back to the hotel, everyone there can tell their story. So it's one big social thing. It's beautiful. I will also drop a link in the podcast notes here for the YoloMites5000. That's a wrap on the Castelli Sports Nutrition Series featuring Dani Hofstetter. If you missed any of the first three episodes, I simply want to listen to them again as they share some great nutrition facts to help everyday athletes enhance their overall athletic performance and daily lives, feel free to go back and give them another listen. And if you enjoyed this episode, please make sure to subscribe, give us a 5-star rating to help us reach more cyclists through the algorithm. Also if you'd like to suggest a future podcast topic, just shoot us a line at podcast at castelli-cycling.com or connect with us on social media. I'll include Dani's contact details and other important information from this episode in the show notes. We hope you all enjoyed this episode and we'll see you in two weeks with the first podcast episode of 2024 featuring the Belgian superstar Remco Evenepoel. Until then, take care, ride safe and have a happy new year.
Hello folks and welcome back to the Castelli Podcast. I hope you had a great Christmas and are enjoying the outdoors, either by foot or participating in the iconic Festive Cycling Challenge or riding indoors during the Castelli Zwift Sosa Rides. There are many. In today's episode, we will delve into a crucial topic for this time of the year, ideal fueling and hydration for long winter training rides and eSports events such as the Castelli Zwift Series. We'll also discuss the impact of alcohol on sports performance, highlighting how moderate alcohol consumption can help reduce stress in the brain and promote relaxation. Joining us is renowned sports performance nutritionist Danny Hofstetter. Danny has been fueling champions for over 20 years. He holds the IOC diploma in sports nutrition awarded by the International Olympic Committee as part of the program of the IOC Medical and Scientific Commission. Throughout his career he has collaborated with a wide spectrum of athletes from world tour cyclists to mountaineers and everyday amateur cyclists. This episode marks our fourth episode on sports nutrition. So if you missed the other last episodes, I highly recommend you start there, where we cover the importance of incorporating fresh vegetables, fruits, fibers, carbohydrates, and proteins into your diet. We also touched on fueling strategies for endurance events, sports drinks, animal versus plant-based proteins, the gluten debate, nutrition myth, and the importance of a healthy gut, not just for athletes but for everyone's well-being. Well, let's get started with this week's episode. Welcome Dani to today's podcast. We are very excited to have you back on the pod with us.
DANI HOFSTETTER
My pleasure, Soren.
SOREN JENSEN
It's easy to remember to drink enough during hot weather riding because, well, it's hot, you're sweating, and you're generally feeling thirsty. But what about when the temperature drops? You don't need as much fluid as you do on hot days because you're losing less of it and your body doesn't have to work as hard to keep your core cool. But it can be surprisingly easy to get dehydrated. Cyclists simply forget to drink because their drinks are cold. So while you may not feel thirsty 2 hours into a cool ride, you may find yourself feeling kind of sapped or like you are having an off day, because you are getting dehydrated without realizing it. I remember most of my winter rides in Denmark back in the day with temperatures below zero, I would always pour boiling water, sodium and some moderate sports drink into my thermal bottles before leaving for my 4-5 hour weekend rides with the club and get more calories from food along the way. Danny, what recommendations do you have on easy ways to trick yourself into drinking enough when you otherwise may not feel like drinking?
DANI HOFSTETTER
It's like so much it's a habit like you have to get used to and then stick to it. Now we have bike computers where you can put the timer on it that's a reminder to drink every 15 minutes or so. And then it's also, I mean here we're talking to an expert, it's also a matter of clothing. If I have the shittiest gloves that I can barely hold my handlebar right or shift my levers, I don't want to drink because I drop my bottle, my friend crashes because of my bottle. I mean it's practical stuff like that, right? And then also another thing that's very important is having the right clothing or the right layering system because if you have the right clothes, then you have a certain breathability and you don't sweat as much. The less you sweat, the less fluid you need to replace. These are kind of the fundamentals. When it's cold, you can concentrate your beverage a bit higher, but be sure to stay beneath 8%, so that's 80 grams per liter if you use only simple sugars. If you want to increase the concentration up to 12%, you rely on a fancy carbohydrate blend of a modern carbohydrate blend, and have a 12% solution. So on a standardized large bike bottle, you're almost ending up at 90 grams. And then if you add a little bit of salt, because that's the secret that we put salt on the streets in order to avoid freezing. If you increase the sodium in your drink a little bit, then you avoid freezing bottles as well or you delay it a little bit.
SOREN JENSEN
You delay it, yeah. And also you encourage yourself to drink more.
DANI HOFSTETTER
Exactly. But don't overdo it because we don't want to have broth in our bottles or something really ugly, but that's something that's very good. And then, as I said, it's just, hey, keep doing it. You know how long you want to ride mostly, and then make sure after half time at least one bottle is empty. Or what I normally do is if I go for a five-hour ride, I know, okay, after three hours, my two bottles shall be totally empty. I need to refill and I plan where I do refill at a gas station or a restaurant. And, then you have kind of these milestones where you have reminders to stay on the drinking pace so to speak.
SOREN JENSEN
No, that's true. What I would do basically in Denmark when my water bottles would be completely frozen after 90 minutes of riding, so I would always try to at least finish like one where I would have my carbos in that bottle. So at least I would get that 60 to 90 grams. But it was a little bit of salt, as you mentioned. But more important, we would then with the team, we would then put down points on the map where we would stop either, you know, do for a coffee stop or just stop somewhere to where we could refill our bottles, warm ourselves up a little, maybe get some calories from real food. So that would keep us going, you know, the whole Sunday for four to six hours on those long endurance rides. DANI HOFSTETTER And another thing, if you have really long rides and super hard conditions, why not wearing a hydro pack underneath a kind of a bit of a larger jacket? Because then your body temperature avoids freezing and you can carry a lot of additional water with you. So that's something I normally do when we have long key training in winter. Obviously, you need to gauge the conditions and the effort anyway because at a certain point there is kind of this crossover between the costs of a training and the benefit. And that's normally when I decide to kind of split up a day, maybe do three hours indoors and three hours outdoors or stuff like that. It costs a bit of creativity.
SOREN JENSEN
It does. It does. Yeah. Then also talking about winter training, I would like to shift over to indoor riding or eSports. During winter, most of us are forced indoors when it's snowing outside for at least some of our training. This typically means spending many hours on the turbo trainer, treadmill or in the gym with a pool of salty sweat gradually soaking the carpet. You simply don't have as much airflow indoors as out. Even with a strong fan game, you'll be sweatier inside. Dani, what recommendations do you have to make sure we stay on top of our hydration?
DANI HOFSTETTER
I have to admit I'm not on Zwift. I've done one race or kind of an animated social ride with pros. That was the Uber Pretzel. It's a long one. We were riding for four and a half hours. I measured my sweat rate there, and I was somewhere around 1.8 liters an hour. I had no fan, no nothing, and it was quite a hard ride. that you lose easily five or six liters of fluid during long rides. So basically, one thing you need to be aware of is when the fluid loss exceeds 2% of your body weight, so I am 75 kilos approximately, 2% would be 1.5 kilos. So if I lose more than that, the performance is likely to decline. There are symptoms like headache, muscle cramping and stuff like that and you want to avoid that. So keep your fluid loss underneath these 2% range. That's not an exact kind of cutoff. Trained athletes can easily cope with 3 or 4% but their performance declines as well. They're just not kind of dead off the 2%, right? And then the good thing about indoor or eSports is normally you have plenty of space and again failing to plan is planning to fail. But if you prepare your bottles and maybe it's five or six bottles or you have your spouse or your girlfriend or your mom replacing them halftime into the ride, it's kind of a matter of organization. And I would definitely say if you're doing longer rides, have two bottles, one that's plain water and one that's your carbohydrates because you lose so much fluid. There's no need to only drink sports drinks. And then often, only to make this point as well, we don't need to overfill ourselves with carbohydrates. If we only go for an easy spin, then we don't die on such high refuel amounts. But I would say go with a lot of fluids, aim for at least 800 milliliters per hour, rather more, because if you're not having three professional fans cooling you down, your sweat rate is through the roof anyway. But in terms of drinking and nutrition, the energy you need is no different than when you ride outdoors. It's basically just the fluid needed that is much higher.
SOREN JENSEN
That is much higher, yeah. So add also the good carbon mix and add a bit of sodium, making sure that you show up I guess well hydrated and when finished, continue to drink to thirst and maybe add sodium to your drinks or food afterwards. Especially swift events can be extreme, can be many hours.
DANI HOFSTETTER
And just to finish up that point you mentioned afterwards, and that's a very good reminder, what I forgot to tell you is if you evaluated your sweat loss or your sweat rate, it takes about 150% of that absolute loss to replenish your liquid levels. So if you lost three liters of sweat, you need to refill them with 4.5 liters until you're kind of evening it out. That factors in the amount that you excrete already, like when refueling, because if you drink a lot, you have to pee a lot, but also it's kind of the osmotic processes that happens in your body. And these 150% are best refilled in the first two to four hours in order not to stall your recovery process. And then I actually feel much more comfortable, even if I'm not thrifting. Obviously I train indoors. I feel much more comfortable if I replace my jersey or my base layer after an hour, one and a half hours because I sweat rather intensely.
SOREN JENSEN
Correct. And then some people even replace the bibs because they don't want to have any skin issues and irritations. And you can feel the difference when you are sweating your way through a Zwift race or entering the dreaded 4th hour on your Uber Pretzel effort. Talking about the perfect kit for indoor riding, I mean any kit will do for a laid back 30-60 minute swift session. But when you are looking for maximum cooling and comfort, you will have to look beyond yesterday's worn out bib shorts. And while we talk riding indoors, Castelli has a line of lightweight products specifically designed for hot, intense indoor riding. As we know, when riding indoors, you simply don't have as much airflow as you have outside. Even with a strong fan game, you'll be sweatier inside. To avoid overheating and reducing your performance, the kit you wear needs to wick sweat from the skin while allowing air to ventilate both the skin, evaporating sweat and the clothing to keep it as dry as possible. You don't move around in the saddle as much indoors and you're not riding over rough surfaces, so the chamois doesn't need to absorb vibration, it just needs to provide a bit of anti-friction comfort. Therefore, in the Castelli bibs we use the Progetto X2 top layer known from high-end bibs, but in the Insider 2 bib shorts we use this super soft skin care layer with excellent moisture management instead of a thick, bulky and normal chamois which doesn't help anyone indoors. And also the Insider bibs have been designed to be as light as possible and to be as breathable as possible with no extra details needed. We use this super lightweight lycra fabric material which helps keep the bulk down, flexibility up and the excellent breathability needed to deal with the riding efforts. The bib straps are minimalistic with an open-knit design aiding breathability. The raw cut leg endings continue the minimalistic theme, offering a smooth and comfortable fit without excess bulk. And when looking at the jersey, the fabric is a 3D semi-open mesh which facilitates optimal airflow, ensuring you stay cool. And to maximize cooling, we kept the collar low and the waist short and added a couple of back pockets for storing your earpods, phone, headband or any essentials you bring to your indoor riding area. And I think in our Insider Collection, we have about eight different products in the Castelli line available for men and women. So for our listeners, go and check out the collection on castellicycling.com. But back to this week's episode, Dani, post-ride hydration. So let's just say we finished a high-volume training ride, an ultra event, or it could be even an Ironman or bikepacking as well. Tell me a little bit about how we can rehydrate ourselves and how much we can actually absorb.
DANI HOFSTETTER
That is not completely different from what we discussed during the exercise. So basically what we need in the first 60 to maybe 90 minutes after finishing the exercise is about 1.2 grams of carbohydrate per kilogram of body weight to start replenishing our glycogen recenter phase. And also we need to kind of spoil our muscles that we broke down and abused, so to speak, during exercise. And with 0.3 grams of easy digestible protein, that's mostly a supplement, can be whey, can be chocolate milk, cow's milk is something that's actually very good despite modern trends saying something different. Milk protein is basically very good in terms of essential amino acids and anabolic potential. And in terms of different beverages that we could consume during this phase, it's again the sports drinks because yes, they contain electrolytes, they contain easy absorbable carbohydrates, but maybe at one point you're tired of them. So what I like is a non-alcoholic beer because it has a bit of a sour or not so super sweet taste and it's fizzy, something I really like after hot days especially, and also mineral water, but something fizzy I consider very refreshing. And non-alcoholic beer is good. Fanta is something very good, so the sweet beverage because it contains fructose and after electrolyte, fructose beats up the liver glycogen resynthesis. And that's one point that's really decisive in recovery.
SOREN JENSEN
Yeah, that's a really good point.
DANI HOFSTETTER
Another thing because we lost a lot of sweat is broth. So you can make any kind of soup, noodle soup, rice soup, just plain broth. That's something that's really good and it's also kind of a good counterbalance to the sweet stuff you had. Most athletes crave something salty. Broth is ideal there.
SOREN JENSEN
Yeah, good recommendations. But now, you touched on non-alcoholic beer. So now I'm going to drag you back to that topic here just super briefly, alcohol. So using non-alcoholic drinks because we always think as an athlete, we try to stay away from alcohol in general or just having maybe one beer. Because I've heard a few guys, professional cyclists, telling me that Valverde, he used to have a cold beer on the bus after every single stage. Maybe this is just a myth, I don't know, but I kind of love it. I love this myth. And I think having a cold beer after every stage that he did, every race, because that's what he just enjoyed, that relaxing factor is just amazing and something I could relate to. What do you think about that with alcohol and just, you know, with a group of friends who come back from a long ride or a Gran Fondo or gravel event. Maybe just, I'm not saying that you're sitting there and just crashing four or five beers, but just having a beer, a pilsner, not even too high alcohol percentage after even a hard event. What do you think about that? What's your opinion?
DANI HOFSTETTER
Well, basically, alcohol, the substance, whether it's beer, wine, hard stuff, alcohol dehydrates. So after we've sweated already, the dehydration aspect of the alcohol is not beneficial in this situation but I think I mentioned it last time, we should never look at nutrition only through a functional lens but also on a social and emotional point of view. And here alcohol is fully loaded whether it's social or emotional and if the weekend warrior or well where they enjoy the beer and it helps them calm down, get over a hard day on the bike, then one beer doesn't affect your performance at all. We had this discussion at a recent seminar where the world's leading sports nutritionists gathered, and there is no research that can tell you that one beer or a glass of wine is detrimental to your performance or recovery. It's always a question of the amount. And I would put one asterisk there. We need to be aware that alcohol has a dangerous social acceptance and it also has peer pressure. So especially after a group ride with the guys, if you say, no, no, no, I'm good, I'm not drinking, you're kind of the weak rider that's not up to a glass of beer after a ride. And I think that's not a good dynamic, but obviously it's out there in certain cultures that's even more. But one drink after a race or after training doesn't harm your performance.
SOREN JENSEN
It doesn't harm your performance, no. And I think it goes when you talk about alcohol, I mean, if you go out there and have three or four beers after, it would affect your dehydration but also affect your sleep at night.
DANI HOFSTETTER
Oh yeah, big time. So alcohol is mostly considered as relaxing. Yes, that's true. But everyone that monitors their HRV or their sleep quality is super poor. And beneath that, with cycling, especially the ambitious cyclist, always is concerned about his watt per kilogram and you don't get slim and really low in your body fat if you have a regular alcohol consumption because alcohol has a negative effect on your fat metabolism.
SOREN JENSEN
That's right. And again, coming back to Valverde, I'm pretty sure that before he was putting himself there in the nice boss seat and just chilling with his beer, he probably already had his recovery shake with proteins and carbos and everything else before. So he was probably just chilling there and chilling in the boss eating his rice and his chicken, driving back to the hotel and enjoying his beer. So talking about rice and chicken for post-race training recovery. Talking about refueling, a lot of people, they always talk about this 20-30 minutes window where you need to get your carbs in, you need to get your proteins in and everything. And then it also extends all the way up to four hours just as long as you just keep adding glycogen and protein to your body. And you maybe take it through what, and now we had this example a few times of the Gran Fondo cyclist or gravel cyclist or triathlete, when they have finished the event, they get back home and just take us through all the steps that they should follow.
DANI HOFSTETTER
So the window is often called the window of opportunity because from a hormonal point of view, you can amplify recovery there decisively. But it's not only kind of 30 minutes, it's like I mentioned before, probably an hour, maybe even two. But if you tell an athlete, it's probably two hours, he most certainly doesn't manage to comply. So that's kind of the reason why we narrowed it down. If you say it's 45 minutes, he succeeds in sticking to 90 minutes. And what you need there is basically, again, a lot of carbohydrates, banishing your fluid losses and protein. The rule of thumb is 1.2 grams of carbohydrates per kilogram of body weight. That's simple sugar, that's not the whole grain bread, that's white rice, that's not quinoa because it contains a lot of fiber, it can be pasta, it can be white bread with honey, with peanut butter. Simple stuff, almost as you would need before exercise because this helps you in speeding up the recovery. Same goes for protein. And these two amounts, 1.2 grams of carbs, 0.3 grams of protein, occurs every two hours until you get your complete next meal. And a complete meal is carb-focused, has little vegetables, is low in fat because fat slows down the accessibility of the decisive nutrients, so protein and carbs. And then yes, we would be happy in having a good portion of protein, so 30 to 40 grams in total. That can be chicken, that can be fish, something light, probably not a steak or raw fish because that's digested again slower. But these are things that people normally do intuitively. So I know a few athletes that crave a steak right after the finish line, right? So maybe something salty and greasy, often then you see the burger or pizza cravings suboptimal because yes, too fatty and too low in carbs and protein, but it always depends what comes next. If you have the decisive time trial, then every second counts. And so we shouldn't go crazy as amateur athletes in wanting to copy what we see on television, in grand tours or on a professional level. But of course, our recovery is crucial as well because if I totally kill myself over the weekend and the first three weeks of the day, I am not performing at work, you probably end up getting the old look of your boss and you don't feel well. And also their consistency is king. So if you kill yourself on the weekend and the next three to four days of your training is not ideal, obviously you screwed up badly. And that's why recovery matters.
SOREN JENSEN
It does matter. I think there's some people that get a little surprised when they, especially on television, see those Grand Tour cyclists that after they cross the finish line, the first thing they grab is their energy drink or the protein shake before even hitting the podium. But they also have to perform on a different level and they will have a lot more of those micronutrients the following hours.
DANI HOFSTETTER
And then there are also very targeted supplements that they use to speed up recovery. Some are well-researched, others are more on the placebo side, but yes, I mean the system is very sophisticated and also quite costly, but that's nothing an amateur cyclist basically.
SOREN JENSEN
The key takeaways from our discussion today is not to limit ourselves to a single brand or type of sports drinks considering the effectiveness for all cycling or just sports activities in general. If you perfectly pair your sports drinks with your workout, you can boost your performance and recovery more quickly. And I would also suggest the listeners here who haven't listened to episode one and two of sports nutrition to go back to the November episodes and give them a listen because we are also covering their day-to-day nutrition, everything that is concerning fruits, vegetables, probiotics, fibers and the micronutrients. That was a really good interview we did back then just like the one today. And that was on Sports Nutrition episode 1. And if you go to Sports Nutrition episode 2, you will find us discussing protein and carb intake. But actually, Danny, one last question and one minute max. Wheat, protein powder and casein. I know the wheat is quicker and casein is more like overnight. But I was kind of surprised last week, but I kind of knew it. Also, the amount, just 1.2 grams of protein do we need a day. I mean, the recommended, as you said, daily intake is 0.8 and it's just like we do nothing. And if you just do like what we do everyday riding, you would still need that 1.5, 1.6. Yeah, exactly. And it's crazy high. I mean, you can spread that over the day, but I'm not eating enough eggs or nuts or meat and everything. So I would definitely need that supplement. Is it still a good supplement for the body? Can it become, I'm not saying immune to the powder proteins or...
DANI HOFSTETTER
No risk there. You'll notice it. The quality of the recovery and just performance overall is just better.
SOREN JENSEN
Yeah, no, it is. No, I definitely felt the difference when I started on. It took me a few weeks to start feeling it because I haven't touched any supplements. I'm not getting anything at all since I quit cycling many years ago. I stopped racing on high level and now coming back probably also due to my age is probably also there. And upping up on my carb intake has just helped me keep my mind running and my cycling more fun again. Even though you have a certain drag. Well, Danny, thank you again for joining us on the Castelli podcast. Danny, if somebody listening here wants to work with you, are you taking on clients and how best can they get in touch with you?
DANI HOFSTETTER
Yes, I do. I work not only in Switzerland but abroad. So technical means allow this very easy. I take on clients. easily on my website that's www.daniehofstetter.ch I'm sure we can put this in the show notes because it's a bit of a complicated German name. Hit me up. I often stress to my athletes it's like when you work with a coach kind of the interpersonal relationship and chemistry has to be right. That's why I talk to people when they want to work with me first and want to know whether they have a good feeling and then we take it from there. And it's always a pleasure to have this international clientele, of course.
SOREN JENSEN
It is, yeah. No, but definitely, Dan, I will track all the links in the show notes to your social and to your website. And again, folks, Danny, apart from being a very good old time friend here. Actually, we met doing a gravel event, more like an ultra event up in the Dolomites five, six years ago, the YoloMites5000, which is an event we always come back to and do every year, organized by Igor Tvela. It's a must for the bucket list. But Dan, you have done them all. You checked all the, what's that, seven editions so far?
DANI HOFSTETTER
Yeah. We started 2016 and I haven't missed a spot. So yeah, it's one of the best days in my cycling year.
SOREN JENSEN
It's fantastic, it is amazing. And it's also a social thing, it's not just, it's not a race, it's a ride, but a social ride. But more... It's an attitude. It's an attitude, because also maybe you want to explain to the listeners here what the whole Yolomites and then what the 5000 number means.
DANI HOFSTETTER
Yeah, the idea started from Igor Tavella, a friend of the brand, and Jared Gruber and Ashley Gruber. The Dolomites are one of the best playgrounds for cyclists globally, but unfortunately there is lots of traffic in these nice mountain areas. And Igor, as a former professional cyclocross rider, had the idea to ride all the most beautiful spots and sections of the Dolomites, but off the beaten path, so to speak. We started in 2016 when everybody was still riding rim brakes and 25cc tires, rode bikes of course, and rode pretty gnarly stuff. And then one, two, three years in, everybody was on disc brakes, was on a gravel bike. travel bike and it's kind of a beautiful development how you see the bike industry evolving. Yes, also because of very few people. And today, it's a very comfortable ride compared to what we've started with. Right, a few of us actually had compacts, real compact gearing on the bikes, you know, even though it's not that long time ago. Now you're right. And the 5000 is approximately 120 kms distance and we do pretty much accurate 5,000 meters of climbing. So you can do the math, it's either steep uphill or steep downhill. Exactly. But it's, as I said, very scenic and stunning views. Most special group that comes together and it's what makes cycling attractive to me.
SOREN JENSEN
Yeah, no, you're right. And for those of you who are thinking, oh boy, I've never done 5,000 meters of elevation in one ride in my life. No worries. I mean, there are also smaller groups doing the mini Yolo Mites, which is usually around 2,500 to 3,000 meters of elevation. So still a big ride, less kilometers, of course, but less elevation. But the first part of the ride or the first half of the ride, we usually all stay together and then the group splits after we have had lunch. So a good day for everyone also when we all come back to the hotel, everyone there can tell their story. So it's one big social thing. It's beautiful. I will also drop a link in the podcast notes here for the YoloMites5000. That's a wrap on the Castelli Sports Nutrition Series featuring Dani Hofstetter. If you missed any of the first three episodes, I simply want to listen to them again as they share some great nutrition facts to help everyday athletes enhance their overall athletic performance and daily lives, feel free to go back and give them another listen. And if you enjoyed this episode, please make sure to subscribe, give us a 5-star rating to help us reach more cyclists through the algorithm. Also if you'd like to suggest a future podcast topic, just shoot us a line at podcast at castelli-cycling.com or connect with us on social media. I'll include Dani's contact details and other important information from this episode in the show notes. We hope you all enjoyed this episode and we'll see you in two weeks with the first podcast episode of 2024 featuring the Belgian superstar Remco Evenepoel. Until then, take care, ride safe and have a happy new year.
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