Join us for a gripping journey into the heart of professional cycling as we delve into the last three decades of pro racing and the world of sports directing.

From Tom’s excitement of joining the number one Classics team when racing pro to later becoming DS for the same team, discover the evolution of cycling, the challenges young athletes face, and the importance of mental toughness in this captivating conversation.

From the chaos of the Tour of Flanders to the relentless battlefields of Roubaix, we uncover the strategies, challenges, and split-second decisions that shape the outcome of these monumental races, the intense pressure, camaraderie, and occasional controversies that unfold behind the scenes.

Discover the untold stories of mechanics scrambling to find the riders' foul-weather clothing in the rain bag, spare wheels, the strategic game of supplying riders during crucial moments, and the delicate balance between following the rules and prioritizing rider safety and performance.

Gain insight into the human side of professional cycling as Tom reflects on the joys of victory, the frustrations of defeat, and the unwavering dedication to supporting riders through triumph and adversity. Get ready to experience the thrill, tension, and exhilaration of cycling races like never before.

Take a seat inside the Soudal Quick-Step team car as we explore the dynamics during some of the most iconic races in cycling history.

Welcome inside the team car and the unseen drama of cycling races.

(00:00) Introduction

(04:43) The Early Years, Tom’s Journey Into Cycling

(13:59) Transforming Young Talented Riders into Champions

(17:59) The Transition to DS

(21:50) Studying the Race Course

(24:59) Race Radio vs Moving on Instinct

(25:49) Racing, Communication, Post-Race Briefing

(39:02) Race Rain Bag Logistics

(48:43) UCI Rules and Fines

(58:55) Eddy Merckx

(01:10:15) Ending


TOM STEELS

And they just pulled full and they broke the group in pieces. I think we left with 15, 20 riders. Ballerini,Tafi, you say, Pieters was in, Bormans was in, so it was really, really a strong team. But also Cipollini was in. Yeah, you have to be careful that you don't burn too many young guys at an early age. It's not so easy. Not everybody is colder than Cole.

SOREN JENSEN

The singular goal of this podcast show is really to bring you various stories from the world of Castelli as we are joined by cyclists from all levels and disciplines. Together we'll explore the best practices for peak performance, discuss how to dress for racing and training in cold and hot weather, share writing stories and hear firsthand about new and innovative products in the works. So if you're new to the show, make sure to browse through the list of past episodes as I'm sure you will find plenty of stories that will catch your interest. And as we just hit 200,000 downloads in our first year of the show, an important we have decided to give away two VIP hospitality tickets inside the iconic Roubaix Velodrome for when this year's Paris-Roubaix will take place on April the 7th. The only thing you'll have to do to participate is really to head over to our YouTube channel if you're not already there and leave a comment on your all-time favorite Paris-Roubaix story or moment, maybe the sector or a favorite classic couple rider of all time. We'll draw the two winners on March 26th. And for those of you who haven't watched the Roubaix from the inside of the velodrome, I can assure you it's something special. As you'll be watching the television pictures on the big screen all day and as the riders approach the iconic velodrome, you will watch the leaders bump over the final sector and turn right into the velodrome and at that moment you will drop your eyes from the big screen down to the spot where they will appear, the point where the pavement ends and concrete begins, the right-hand corner onto the velodrome and to me probably the greatest corner in pro cycling. All the noise, the banging on the publicity boards, the announcer, the holes of fans, booming into an amphitheater of concrete all at once. I even get goosebumps now just talking about my last experience. But now this could be you on Able the 7th. The only thing you have to do is head over to a YouTube channel and leave your comment on your favorite moment, writer or story from this iconic race, the queen of the classics. But back to this episode, without further delay, please enjoy my conversation with Tom Steeles who rode the Roubaix nine times and won 64 races in his career before retiring at the end of the 2008 season and before pursuing a career as sports director helping other professional cyclists perform at the highest level as DS. Hey everybody, welcome to the Castelli Podcast. I'm really excited today to have Tom Steeles, one of the world's two most longest standing and probably the most experienced Direkteur Sportif DS and a guy who has seen it all on the show today. If you weren't born earlier than the late 80s or didn't follow professional road cycling in the news, you might never have heard about Tom. But he's an absolute legend of the sport. He rode on some of the best classic teams of the 90s including seven years riding for Mapei MG and Mapei Quickstep. And if we take a look on his palmares, you will find nine stage wins at the Tour de France, two times winner of Gent-Wevelingen, Omloop Heldvolk and the list goes on and on. So Tom, it's an honor to have you on the show. It's an absolute pleasure to have you on and thank you for taking the time to join me.

TOM STEELS

Pleasure is mine. Yeah, no problem.

SOREN JENSEN

Tom, I'm sure not all of our listeners are familiar with who you are. So let's start having you share your story on how you got into cycling, your career highlights, your 14 years riding professional with half of the time riding for Mapei, Quickstep, and how you ended up where you are today.

TOM STEELS

Yeah, that's a long story. That's a long story. I actually started to ride a bike, a BMX to be honest, because I couldn't ride the horse at home. I always fell off. Because in my family, my brother, I have three brothers, they all came from horseback riding. But I was the youngest of the four, and I always fell off.

TOM STEELS

And I said, I'm gonna quit it. And my father gave me and my mother a BMX and I started for BMX for four or five years. Then I went into road cycling, all by coincidence. But at the end, it turned out quite great. I started because I fell a lot of a horse. And then the story continued. I got better and better. I combined a lot with the track, track racing. Of course, I had the handling of the bike from the BMX, so I was really not really afraid to race, even though my first two races were a disaster. Couldn't even shift properly. The second race, I crashed. I came home under the blood with my brothers, even my brothers always, because of the injuries. I was 15. So my mother already freaked out because she saw me like, almost had to quit. But then I got better and better. I won my first year, two or three races, the year after 25, and then I continued. And then just, you roll into cycling, before you know it, your career is over.

SOREN JENSEN

It goes quick, yeah. Because you turned pro in 1994. That's 30 years ago.

TOM STEELS

Yeah, that was still a completely different way of cycling. Really old school. I mean, you go to the races. I started actually in a quite good team. It was the first year, was called Flanders 2002. So we started with all young riders, all new professionals who got the opportunity to get into cycling, to get into professional cycling. But yeah, really old school. I mean, we went to the race with the race car and two normal cars. We had to clean our clothing after the race. So you went into the shower and you try to clean your clothes for the next day so the humidity and the shamer was always very high but it was fun to be honest was fun and step-by-step of course was professional I say that two years one a stage in the Tour de l'Avenir, one Van Steenbergen there was which was a classic in Belgium and then I was picked up by by Patrick, Patrick Lefebvre and then I went directly to the big Mapei team.

SOREN JENSEN

How was Mapei team different back then? It's always been the number one classic team, but back then you also have a lot of the Italian riders that was a good mix and also Tony Rominger was on the team and you had later on Frank van der Broeck, Paolo Bettini, Michele Bartoli, Mouseo. I mean, you had the older local legends. That team just had that firepower to be strong throughout the whole season.

TOM STEELS

Yeah, for me it was really a culture shock. I mean, I came from a small team. I went to a big team with almost, I mean, 35 riders, a lot of nationalities, a lot of different riders, many people, I mean, we are already with a lot of people, but even there, at that time, still bigger. Yeah, and for me, Sportify was a big difference, all to adjust to the trainings. I mean, I suffered, I must say, the first period a lot. But I will never forget my first race. I mean, I think it was with them in Tour Mediterranee. Yeah. Suddenly I saw seven, because in those days you still could ride with eight riders in a stage race. I saw seven blue guys going to the front. I said, yeah, okay. Still without radios. I think I have to hurry up or I'm too late. I was, I think, the last man hanging on. And they just pulled full and they broke the group in pieces. I think we left with 15, 20 riders. With Ballerini, Taffi, Misse, Pieters was in, Bormans was in. So it was really, really a strong team. But also Cipollini was in. So, still with his leg warmers on, we thought this is going to be an easy one. Yeah. But the first time they pulled, I could already beat Cipollini. Cipollini was second, who was in those days one of the fastest. So then you make your mark and then you have the confidence of the team behind you. You have your own confidence, but I think maybe that was one of the most important races to win. Especially because then you get also the Italians behind you, like Ballerini and Toffi. They didn't know me, they just saw a small Belgian guy coming into the team who they have to work for. But okay, I won and then I continued.

SOREN JENSEN

Wow, that was a big milestone of your career, where everything started to accelerate after that.

TOM STEELS

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Then you get into the classics, into the classics team, you learn a lot. Then your first grand tour. We also always rode to win, was always, the pressure was always on in every race. Mentality. Going from small to big races. And it's still the mentality you have now in this team also. Every race we go, we try to make a plan and to win. But that we learned. Luffy Peters was there, Patrick was already there. So yeah, it's just in our DNA, which I got already early in my career.

SOREN JENSEN

Winning a lot of races and the spirit of riding as a team, that makes me think of the Wolfpack. This is also how the name Wolfpack, how everything started. Of course it came up later, but you know, that mentality was from the very first days of the team.

TOM STEELS

Yeah, it's the way we think also. Also, Baramati has the same mentality. I mean, we were cyclists because of that. We knew already early in the career, or I already knew, you need your people around you to protect yourself and to control the race, but you need really a team within cycling, and that's actually what we also do in this team. I mean, the name Wolfpack is actually invented by Brian Hall.

SOREN JENSEN

It was Brian.

TOM STEELS

Brian did it, and his mail is after the races. But it's actually, it is a good summary of why we do racing and how we think it's the best way to go to race. All for one and all for all, it's a bit the same.

SOREN JENSEN

Coming back also to Mapei, that jersey design was so, and still is today, iconic. You still see it in Italy on the road sometimes, people riding around that replica. Over the years, in the 30 years that you've been living the world of professional cycling, is this still today your all-time favorite cycling jersey when it comes to the graphic aspects?

TOM STEELS

Yeah, it was completely different. It was nice even if I see it now, even if a tourist in Belgium still wears that jersey, good footing and it has something different than any other jersey in cycling. I think it never has been copied or never has been a jersey with the same impact, I think.Correct. Besides the national Belgium jersey as a champion with the three colours, which was also very nice to ride in, but that jersey of Marpe had something special.

SOREN JENSEN

Yeah, because for you with four Belgian national road titles, that's also a big achievement to your Palmares.

TOM STEELS

Yeah, that was very, very nice. Winning in a national jersey, whatever country you are, if you look back, the people still remember most of the races, especially in the Tour, if you won them in a national jersey. It's something special.

SOREN JENSEN

You get something else on a victory. Yeah. Today, cycling has just changed completely. I mean, we see now younger but very young athletes coming into the sports and being superheroes, already being a few steps up the ladder compared to 20 years ago or 10 years ago. Nutrition has changed a lot, training, bike stuff, aero clothing, the compact gear and the lightness of the bikes and everything. Is

SOREN JENSEN

this something positive, you think, for the sport? Or should we take a step back and let some of the young guys maybe develop first before we throw them into bigger grand tours? Yeah, I think it's a little bit too much evolution, I think, is what I want to ask you.

TOM STEELS

It's a lot to carry, I think, and especially for young kids. I mean cycling is not an easy sport No, every race is tough every race you have to dig deep and for young kids It's not only it's not only cycling itself, but it's also the social capacities that you have to have to be 160 170 a days away from home. Yeah, you need to fit into a group Yeah, you have to be careful that that you don't burn too many young guys at an early age. It's not so easy. Not everybody is called a ramcock. Some people need, and it's not a lot, I mean, they need one or two years more, also develop their tactical skills. Because at the end, physically and professional cycling, that doesn't make the results. It's the capacity to think tactically, because you always compete against a guy who is maybe 1 or 2% less or 1 or 2% more, and then the tactical skills make the difference. But with the professionals, to learn to win is not easy. You really have to learn from the young categories. Also not to lose your mental toughness, that you still feel like you're a winner. And that's the challenges we have. Some of them can come over because they're strong enough, but I think 80% of the riders, maybe 90% of the riders, just that one or two years more, would benefit them more than come directly to the professionals. Also, the parents have to understand, if you have a young kid of 18 years old, if he's 21, he still can be 15 years of a professional cyclist. Then his backpack is filled a lot more than when he comes over at 18 or 19.

SOREN JENSEN

Correct. Yeah. And also because in a younger age, you probably think you can take the leap earlier, and then you have all this expectations and pressure on your shoulders. And if you just have one bad season, it could be bad luck, a crash or something. Maybe you're out for a lifetime after, maybe you're never going to come back. You know, it's...

TOM STEELS

You have to be on an age where, I always say, your first two, three years as a professional, you have to have the luck or you have to have the body to continue training without many setbacks because then you grow. But if you're too young, you raise two months an injury, you may you raise another two months, you get sick, but you cannot continue to develop yourself if you're not strong enough. And then the mental aspect comes and then yeah, depressions and then yeah, why do I cycle? Why do I do this? Or the other side, the bike is not good enough. The clothing is not good enough. And then they start to search for the details. But the bike is always good enough. Clothing is well to make results. Of course, nowadays in cycling, also clothing, also bikes make a big impact on the highest level. But to get to the highest level, there are different ways to get there.

SOREN JENSEN

Now these are some very wise words.

TOM STEELS

It's a tough world. I mean, if I had a kid who cycled, who tried to be a cyclist, but he didn't like to train, so I never ever pushed him. Even as a young kid, you have to have the feeling to go training to get on that bike, but the feeling has to come from yourself. Is it from the outside? You will never survive long time. You have to have that fun and you can give some guidance, but it has to come from the person on the

SOREN JENSEN

bike itself. It has to come naturally. Yeah, that is so true. Now we covered a lot already, but we also covered your 15 years of riding professional. Now the other 15 years as a director of sportif or sports director, because did you make the shift already when you retired at the end of 2008 and then you started 2009 as a DS or how long did you, or what year did you start?

TOM STEEL

S I started with coaching after my career, but I also worked for television as a co-commentator on the Belgium television. And also there I learned a lot. For me, it was quite good to be one or two years out of cycling, just to have a different view on cycling. So it helps me a lot when I see, when I hear people giving comments on races, because I know how it is to be there in that small box with not so much info. You only tell what you see but maybe what you see there is a completely different story behind but okay they can only tell what they what they see but it was nice it was nice to to be there to to to just see different things about two years but then luckily I also got the opportunity to start back as a DS and a coach into Patrick's team. That was 2011 then? Yeah, I think so. It was nice. I mean, to be a sport director, it's a completely different job. You're not a bike rider anymore. You know how it is to be on the bike, but you're not a bike rider anymore. And you just have to, yeah, it's a complex job and I don't know where really to start, but it's a lot, yeah. SOREN JENSEN I can imagine. And especially the first season, because one thing is also when you race those races as a cyclist versus your first time behind the steering wheel in a team car and you have to drive through the peloton, you got the radio, you got, you know, so much is happening and you know, on a bike, you know, the gaps we can get through. I mean, for me, looking from the outside, it must have been nerve wracking and stressful, you know, especially the first year. How did you, what was your experience?

TOM STEELS

Yeah, the first race was always, I did Mallorca as the first race, which was not easy. You have the trees left and right from the road, and mechanics yell, go to the left. Then you often hear, and then you of course hit the tree with the bikes. You have the walls, you have the riders around the cars, you have the descents, you have a lot to take care of. Because driving the car into a bike race, it's probably one of the toughest jobs during the race. You really have to be focused. I mean, the bike riders have no protection. They're right behind your car at 60 kilometers an hour. You have to have 15 eyes to see everything. The guys in the car, the mechanic and the co-driver are also very important. But it's also fun to do. Luckily, 95% of the drivers of the cars were former riders. To be honest, it's a bit of a bike race also behind with the cars. We have to have discipline also. Riders always have the upper hand when we are in the cars. We don't make the race. We don't have to make the race. And if we help the riders, they have a flat tire, we try to get there as fast as possible, but always with a little bit of safety to not, yeah. It's a lot of risk. Taking the risks, yeah. But that's one part of the job, of course. I mean, the other part is when I started, to be honest, there was still the race book. I still see me standing in front of the bus with the race book, just showing a little bit where the wind came from. That was it. The next step, I start to search for other tools to just get more information. So I start to watch Google Maps, just is there a small road or not. I make the notes. When I did my first or second Roubaix, I did the recons, and I really had like a rally car book, two kilometers further we go left, narrow, just to talk to the riders. And then other tools came. The first thing I said, yeah, the meetings, maybe we can do it with a PowerPoint, maybe it's better with a screen just to show the riders. So I was in a hotel with the screen, then the next step, we put it in the bus to make the meetings before the race with the PowerPoint. Then other tools came like VailorView and RideWithGPS and then where we could really follow the race. And now to be honest, yeah, we know every corner, every little road, every open sector.

SOREN JENSEN E

very little pothole on the road, and if it's slippery or the wind direction is changing. Because you also have someone sometimes up front. Because you also have someone sometimes up front, further up the road, who can give you

TOM STEELS

direction and tell if something is changing. Especially on Grand Tours, because you see it in front, but you often don't know where the barriers are going to be or small changes, especially for the last five kilometers, if it's a bunch of pins, every information can be crucial. So the guy in front gives us that, well in front, that we still can give it to the riders. But yeah, it's, I mean, the preparation of a race, you easily talk about three hours, four hours for one stage.

TOM STEELS

So you can count if you do have to do grand tour 21 races, how much time goes in from filling in the course, understanding the course, to put it in a PowerPoint for the meeting, which is actually the tactics of the race, if the race goes normal, because a lot of things can change. But there is a lot of time that goes into that preparation. But you need it also to be calm in the car, because at least you know the course where

TOM STEELS

you get into.

SOREN JENSEN

Do you think sometimes the riders, they count too much on you guys back in the car and don't act on instinct?

TOM STEELS

Yeah. But that's something we teach them. I mean, we at the car, we are the last solution. They are the first solution. That's good. They have to feel the race because if it has to come from the car, it will take them 10 kilometers more to 10 kilometers more effort. So for me, the most important is the meeting in front of the race, just to know who the leaders are, who is going to pull the first, which teams cannot go, which teams we're going to watch in the final, are we going to do it ourselves? That's for me the most important thing.

TOM STEELS

When they leave the bus, if they have a clear tactic, to be honest, I would be very happy only to say the dangerous point and tactically that they just go their own way. And that's something I really like to teach them also. Even if they make a mistake in the race, it doesn't matter because if you only do it once, if they do it five times, it's another story. You learn from your mistakes.

SOREN JENSEN

You learn from your mistakes.

TOM STEELS

Yes, correct. And riders are no robots. And you, yeah, even without radios, I still want to have the best team. And you can only do that by giving riders responsibility and also give them the responsibility. Because then I always think if I was a bike rider and somebody tells me always in the year what I have to do,

TOM STEELS

five kilometers later, probably you'll be out. You have to have that instinct in the races.

SOREN JENSEN

Plus it's also, it's the only place where you can feel the tension. There is, if there's something that is building up, you know, inside of the group or in the breakaway. If somebody is about to go on, go in the breakaway or attack or something, you know, that is something you can only feel if you're there in the group and not from a few kilometers behind in a team car.

TOM STEELS

Yeah. I mean, if you have the luxury to be second or third car, you still see what happens. But if you're car number eight or nine, to be honest, then you're too far away to feel it. Later on, when you get the data, after the race, you see the race data, then you know, fuck, this was hard, or this was hard, or the other riders suffered or not. But during the race, to be honest, I'm always happy if you go on the road with a smart team, then you're much more relaxed and you don't have to put situations right that were not necessary.

SOREN JENSEN

Correct. How many team cars are allowed on the course doing, let's say, one of the coupled monuments?

TOM STEELS

I usually can follow with two cars, but yeah, if you take a race like Tour of Flanders or Roubaix, that's too hectic. So even with one car, it's already not easy to come to the front group. So usually, like in Belgium, it's forbidden to start in the front, so you have to follow directly from the second car. But then at certain points we say, okay, the second car goes out, takes the sticker off that he cannot come back into the race, and then we just follow with one car.

SOREN JENSEN

How many people would you then, now you mentioned Roubaix, have on the course with spare wheels?

TOM STEELS

A lot.

SOREN JENSEN

Do you know the number?

TOM STEELS

Yeah, really a lot. I think, I mean, every sector is covered. And now also for security, you calculate a lot of time to go from one sector to another one. I think the times of cowboy style is over. That's not acceptable anymore. Which was 10 or 15 years ago, was a different story. Yeah, I think we have five or six teams, five or six cars going in between with like 20-25 people.

SOREN JENSEN

With spare wheels and with drinks bottles. There will be 6 seconds through all the sectors making sure that.

TOM STEELS

They also have that plan, they also know where to stand, they also text us in the car where they are. They also put it on the VeloVuro map, then you know where they are exactly. Then you can say that you don't have to say they are in one kilometer, but then you really can say kilometer 105.6, they're gonna be there.

SOREN JENSEN

Yeah, you always think about it when you're watching it on television, and you never really understand all that stress that is going on and how hectic it is inside of the car, but also the people standing alongside the course. One thing is you have one puncture and one rider who goes down, but another thing is if you have three riders that go down at the same spot, and they all need a spare wheel or a spare bike.

TOM STEELS

Yeah. And often you also make to make tough decisions. I mean, often you cannot wait. And then you leave a rider behind with a flat tire. Because you, especially in Roubaix it's very tough, but also in Tour of Flanders, and then you just always move on. To the people who are really still in the race, if you will always give a rider a wheel, but often you just give the wheel and you go on.

TOM STEELS

And then the riders understand, and we also brief them in front, what can happen, they understand it also. But it's very hectic, I mean, once I step into the car with my colleagues, I always say, okay, this is our office today. It's an office also. You have different iPads. But they always say, if you ask me,

TOM STEELS

isn't it boring to be seven hours in the car? It's not boring. It's like five minutes. The race starts and you go on. And once you get concentrated, then you have to keep, yeah, your brain is just, and after the race, you're also dead.

SOREN JENSEN

And there's probably also a bit of debrief you have to do after the race with the riders or... Yeah, if something happens... Maybe the next day.

TOM STEELS

Yeah, you do debriefing if it's really necessary. If you yourself have already enough information, so you listen to the riders. And if you really feel there is something boiling, then you're going to look for the moment or try to get your story clear, that you get to the riders with a clear story. I always say 10 minutes after the race, they can yell whatever they want, that's not important. But is that half an hour after the race, if that story still stands or not,

TOM STEEL

S and then you know, okay, we have to do something with it. Or to learn for the next race, or if it's a problem to solve the problem, or just to have a laugh. But I'm not the debriefing guy every day. They already have to do a lot, they don't already have a lot of time, but you listen and you learn. I think in my whole career I did it maybe four or five times, when I really felt, okay, this is not okay, guys. This is not who we

TOM STEEL

S are. And then you see the next day, everybody's like, oh my god.

SOREN JENSEN E

verything changes, yeah. Different mentality. I think those are the right approach. most difficult decision you had to make in your career as a DS?

TOM STEELS

Yeah, one of the toughest I mean was like leaving Michael Morko behind in the tour. He wasn't good, but we still went for the station and we needed the cars and yeah, we had to leave him behind alone. That was a tough one. Luckily we had a good one here who was behind the broom wagon. And the broom wagon luckily also was very gentle, at least to give him a bottle. And you have to respect also the rider if he doesn't want to stop. We knew it was almost impossible to come into the time limit, so that was a tough one. Yeah, also sometimes it's tough really to make a call, especially when it's tight, to chase, break away. When still a rider is in,

TOM STEELS

but you think you have more chance from behind to win, that's also a very tough call that you don't also take lightly. And of course crashes. I mean, a crash always goes straight to the heart. You always are, yeah. Once you hear or see a rider on the ground, that's never ever going to be a nice thing to see. I always calm myself down to be sure if you get him back onto the bike,

TOM STEEL

S he's also good to go on the bike. Luckily, and that's a good thing, I think in 95% of the races we also have a doctor in the race and once there was a crash usually he's in the second car in the grand tours we always call him directly up that beside the race doctor at least we have our own doctor also. Also the most person there the rider yeah yeah losses I mean that was a nice thing to hear from Elio Kers who was a sport director first year with us last year the nice thing was we did together the race in the last stage in Dunkirk. We wanted to go for the win. And the one thing he said and we'll never forget because that's actually that's that's exactly how it is. As a bike

TOM STEELS

rider you went to the tension, the adrenaline on the bike but once the race is over it's over. I mean you take a shower but as a sport director the adrenaline just keeps on coming. And if you win it's okay you also lose it quite quickly. But the frustration, if you lose, it just sticks to the body. And that's something you have to learn also. That's why running after a race or just doing something different, half an hour to get loose of the race, then go to the riders is usually a good thing to do. But the adrenaline just keeps on coming.

SOREN JENSEN

Yeah.

SOREN JENSEN

Yeah. No, I can imagine. I was over all the goals and goal setting. But it's also a way of doing a bit of meditation after just letting go of the issue or the problem or the result. And like you said, go for a 30-minute run just to clear it out. Rethink about it, because maybe get a different perspective and relax and come back.

TOM STEELS

You see it differently. And you also cannot forget, I've done competition sports when I was eight. It's also in my system. It is. Once I come into competition, I just have a different mindset. It's a completely different, almost a different person, you see.

SOREN JENSEN

There are some people that sometimes I question meeting them casually in person. I thought, how could this person be such a good cyclist? Because as being a good cyclist, you need to have this hunger, hunger for winning and give a little bit extra. I'm saying have a big ego because again, I'm happy if my teammates win, but I wish it was me. It's kind of still that mentality you have as a cyclist. I can see that then as soon as those were those people, when they pin on a race number, boom, the mindset just completely changes.

TOM STEELS

an extra power you get on board. You have riders who are good riders on training but never will be exceptional. But those are the guys usually in the race, once the number is on, they get to their best. And you see even the numbers changing. And you have the guys who, yeah, I think out of 10 riders, maybe one is a real winner. The second one or the third one is close by, but there are not so many winners in a team. They really have that... Like, even calm guys can really be winners

TOM STEELS

because they feel the race and they want to win. Because to win you have to dig deep. You always have to dig deep and you have to have that nasty mentality for yourself. That you say, today I will, not lose. And if you lose, then you throw the helmet away, a lot less than before. But even I threw my bike in the air after a frustration loss. Over the years, you learn how to handle it more, but the fire inside still stays the same. Outside, you stay more calm, but inside it's still boring.

TOM STEELS

That's why the bus, if you close the bus, they can do whatever they want. And it's also necessary to do it. But yeah, a winner is a winner. It's difficult to say. It is a team sport, but at the same time,

SOREN JENSEN

an individual sport. And there's so many expectations also building up to it. But then you also have the glory. And now as a DS, I assume that you are probably more on the road today than you were when you were racing, you know, between training camps, recons, out there at races. How does it feel when someone succeeds in victory, like something that you guys have built up for, some big race or when Kasper S. Grand won Tour of Flanders in 21, that

SOREN JENSEN

joy that is within the team after when you guys are popping champagne and celebrating, that must also feel like something special to you as a DS, just as it was back in the day when you were racing for Mapei.

TOM STEELS

The feeling is almost the same. I mean, nowadays with the onboard cameras, you see the joy we have if a rider wins, and it's not a theater. We really are really excited. I mean, if Kasper won Tour de Flanders, even last year in the Tour, when he won that incredible stage in the Tour,

TOM STEELS

which was so close, and we had a difficult Tour, well, then we explode. Yeah. Then we just, and then we're happy even with tears, even with, yeah, and at last, and then, phew, you're like, you're almost like the bike rider again, which is just, with many people who do a job,

TOM STEELS

this is also, in our job, one of the most nicest things to do. When it goes wrong, it goes wrong. Then we also feel down, but when it goes good, it's like, yeah, it's like a big party. But it's not only us in the car, it's also the emotions in the bus. It's the guys who are at the hotel.

TOM STEELS

Everybody just goes. You flow one centimeter above ground if you win. And the tougher it is to win, the deeper it gets, the nicer it is. If you win a lot, even if every win is difficult, especially as an ex-bike rider, you know it's never ever easy to win. But you get a certain mood of, we will win again. But if it gets tough and you win, and then you have a win and it's...

SOREN JENSEN

No, it takes you out of that dark space because then, and it completely changes the vibe and the energy that is around the team. So, you know, that's right. What about inside of the team car, when the mechanics doing one of the classic races, say Omloop or Kuuren or Gent, and so when the riders come up to the car

SOREN JENSEN

asking for something in the race rain bag. Is it easy or is it very difficult for the mechanic to find what they're looking for? How does that work? I mean, we supply equipment and the race rain bags until the riders wear stuff, but how does it actually

TOM STEELS

unfold inside of the team car? So you have to imagine you have the team car, the mechanic behind. And I must say, nowadays to be a mechanic is not easy. It's not easy. It's a very technical bike. It's a bike that is strong but on the other side also vulnerable. So to be a mechanic in the car, they are not there on vacation. It's not easy. So you have the seven rainbags behind and the rainbag is like a little bit like their personality. If you have an organized people, but because you have rainbags, everything is on. Car warmers, gloves, everything has its compartment. Every piece has its place in this, but some it's perfect. The Ask Rain jacket, and nowadays with the stuff we have from Castelli,

TOM STEELS

they have different choices for different weather types. And if it's organized, it takes a mechanic 10 seconds to take it, and he gives it to the rider. But if you have a rider with a little bit of less organized skills, then it's all over the rain bag and then it takes two minutes to find what he needs. Or it's not in the rain bag that he asked it that he forgot it in the hotel. Or it's in a place that you never find it. And then it takes longer and longer. And usually if they need rain clothing, it's usually because it starts to rain. But then you don't have one rider who comes but then you have seven riders

TOM STEELS

who come to the car and then it's just a bomb explodes in the car. So then the mechanic yeah then can be very hectic in the car and if it's like really warm then yeah then they come for bottles yeah and then it's like and if you have car number one or two it's quite okay but then the battle starts with the bottles is in the back. So he has to turn around. And if it's like a hectic course, like in Italy, with 15,000 corners in one kilometer, then they really have to have a strong stomach. But it's hectic. It's for sure hectic. I think we did one, it was quite a nice story. We did Liege-Bastogne-Liege with the snow and then we had a good weather man and he could really predict listen um within two kilometers it's going to be over for half an hour

TOM STEELS

it was really like snow and everything so then at least could say to the riders hold on to the jacket after the hill it's going to be dry then of course it took everything out and I was together with with the drama. Yeah, the video dramatic. And he wanted to dry all the clothing. So the desk in front of the car no way. So outside was like, I don't know, four degrees. Yeah. But I had to put my window down with the heating was full. So it was like a movie warm in the car, but I had to cool from the outside.

SOREN JENSEN

While driving at that speed still. While being busy with the race. 6 But still.

SOREN JENSEN

But yeah, that's also...

TOM STEELS

Sometimes you have to come up with solutions. 12 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

TOM STEELS

It's like a little bit of being of MacGyver, right? Yeah. Sometimes we have to fix the cleats, sometimes we have to fix the chain. It's always something. Yeah.

SOREN JENSEN

I heard also a couple of fun stories, funny stories. But one of them was also one of your guys who crashed and broke the buckle, the closure buckle on the specialized shoes. He needed a new pair of spare shoes, which he was supposed to have in his race rain bag, but what the mechanic found was a pair of casual shoes. Oh, God, that's a fun one. Okay, so then when you're at the race, I always thought about how you guys,

SOREN JENSEN

especially doing one of those long days in the car, as you mentioned earlier, seven hours, how do you guys go about your lunch break? Let's say when you're gonna eat your sandwich or taking a nature break, when you gotta go, you gotta go.

TOM STEELS

Tell me a little bit more, Tom, about how all that works. Yeah, of course the lunches are prepared by the body's for us and that's also improving. Nowadays we often get a salad or usually it's like how do you say the name of a baguette, a sandwich. Yeah, but it's probably easier to eat than a salad. Yeah, especially if you're driving. Yeah, if you're driving it's impossible to eat the salad. So yeah, and you eat when you have time. And you drink when you have time. And the natural stops. And we usually call our colleague.

TOM STEELS

And then, of course, if you're far behind in the column, you move up just to not to lose too many spots. Because in a grand tour, like the tour, it's all well. But like in a small tour, you have to be careful that you don't get out of after the broom wagon, after the police escort, because then you're out of the race and you come into normal traffic. So you move on and nine out of ten, you move to the front, a village comes, no space to stop, and then you have to wait, wait, wait. Then our other colleagues come back again, and then you find

TOM STEELS

the spot and then you stop and then you try to get back as soon as possible, as fast as possible. But you really have to be careful.

SOREN JENSEN

How far behind is the Bloom Wagon?

TOM STEELS

That's not so far. I mean, if you're there for one minute, one minute and a half, it can already be tricky. Often you see, especially when you drive last car, even riders who stop to pee, if the last car doesn't stop, they're also often out of the class and then you never can come back. So there has to be some solidarity also,

TOM STEELS

especially for riders who are really, and also often riders just, yeah, they stop to pee and the peloton doesn't go fast, but they still go 40, 45. They have the feeling it goes quite okay, but before they know it, there's nobody to bring them back. So it's not the first time a rider

TOM STEELS

really has to chase down the group because he stopped for too long.

SOREN JENSEN

And even for a rider, but also for you guys, also finding, especially during a grand tour, finding a good spot where you can actually go and do your natural break where there's no people, no fans, where you're not in the way. It's not easy. I mean, this whole thing.

TOM STEELS

It's not easy. 10 No.

TOM STEELS

When it gets hectic, I must say, I lower the consumption of drinks. SOREN JENSEN Of drinks, yeah.

TOM STEELS

I bring it down, so we don't have to stop often.

SOREN JENSEN

So I heard, I don't know if it's true, but I've heard that during a grand tour where the start usually is around 12.30, 1 o'clock and not like the classics where you would start early in the morning, that there is this unwritten DS or mechanic rule that you never have lunch before 1 o'clock. Is that right? Or you don't, in the car, is that, or is that only some teams?

TOM STEELS

That's only some teams, I think. For me, the limit is 12 o'clock. Okay. So usually, if it's a late start, and we are there at the start, and the meeting is done, then usually, yeah, we eat what's in the car already, before the race, then at least you can eat quite that easy. Yeah.

TOM STEELS

But yeah, I think with us, it's not really a rule.

SOREN JENSEN

Okay, now that's good to hear. What piece of advice would you give to someone new coming into the DS role and getting behind the wheel for the first time as a sports director?

TOM STEELS

First of all, of course, know the course, know your qualities, but also your pitfalls. And also as a sports director, we have to be modest. It's still the bike rider who wins the race. We help them and we try to make, we try to get the best out of the riders. But at the end we just do our job and we are a small piece, can be a small piece of victory or not, but yeah, we try to bring the rider in the best possible circumstances to the race, but from start to finish, we have our role, but the rider does it, the rider does it.

SOREN JENSEN

Correct.

TOM STEELS

The rider does it and we can help and sometimes we have that small part where we help them with information but they have the legs and they just have to spin the legs and I don't want to downsize our job but I also don't want to make it like we are like you often read like the DSs, they make the tactics and they make the plan.

SOREN JENSEN

They make the tactics, they've got robots and yeah, no, that's ridiculous.

TOM STEELS

You make a plan with the guys. It's always together with the, because I can make a plan, but if the riders say, no, no, we want to do it differently, can also be a good choice. But then you discuss about it. At least that you have a clear plan. But as a DS, you have to be a people manager and you have to understand that this one year, the mechanic, the guys on the office, they're at least as important as we are. Also that has to be a team and the structure of a team also has a big impact on results

TOM STEELS

and we carry maybe a lot more, we carry responsibility because if it's not wrong, we have to say it also, but we have to count on our colleagues also, on every level of the team.

SOREN JENSEN

Of the team, yeah. No, it's one big chain. If there's just one missing link, then it's not going to work.

TOM STEELS

So... And enjoy it.

SOREN JENSEN

Enjoy the job. Enjoy the job, yeah. You're right. What is the worst fine you ever received during a race? Or the most stupidest?

TOM STEELS

Yeah, the worst one, that's really... Of course we do things, we also know if we get a fine, sometimes it's a 100% fine, correct fine. The other one is you can discuss about it. But one, one of the, the toughest fines we ever got was with Julian in the tour where we, we, he took a bottle just after the 20 kilometer rule, which is, of course, yeah, you cannot discuss about it. It was like 19.8 or 19.5, but he was just after, with a good reason, was the last climb of the day. There were a lot of people already on the course, a lot of spectators,

TOM STEELS

so he moved to try to find a safe spot. Was a very hot day, we had to pass a village at high speed, so there we couldn't give a bottle. The group was very compact, so there were good reasons why he was just after the 20km rule. So we got a fine, junior lost his jersey, COVID time, so the world lost a lot of people. There I missed a lot of humanity in the decision and then I lost it, then I just couldn't hold it anymore. And it's still when I had a discussion with the commissar, which actually is a good person,

TOM STEELS

but yeah, that decision I really could not live with. And the riders were on the buzz and my colleagues were on the bus and they heard it. But that's still for me, one of, yeah, on the human side, one of the worst decisions I ever had to cope with. Yeah. But okay, still alive and still go on to the other race, but also for Julian. But, but in general, I mean, yeah, we lost so many people, so many friends, so many parents. 11 Yeah.

SOREN JENSEN

friends, so many parents. And then just the contrast was too big for 500 meters and half 11 a liter of a bottle.

SOREN JENSEN

I completely agree with you. But those guys also just following the rules, but yeah, a 10 little bit of flexibility.

TOM STEELS

Yeah, I know you're right.

SOREN JENSEN 

I don't blame it, but it just... The rules keep getting more and more strict from the UCI, also with some of the new rule

TOM STEELS

Yeah, often it's forgotten that the rules are getting very tight. The fines are getting very high. But yeah, as a DS we have no union. I mean, we are always in the race. We protect our riders, we also help other riders from other teams. But now you get a fine for everything. We know our limits. I mean, 95% of the time, but is that 5%?

TOM STEELS

Of course, you have to be careful that it doesn't go, that is exaggerated. But it's like giving bottles to a rider. If a rider comes back after two weeks of racing, 35 degrees, you give him a small push because he has to carry seven bottles. Those kinds of things, they just, you just have to find the human aspect also.

TOM STEELS

If a rider get dropped in the final, and that's actually the mentality we got from Patrick when we had him as a DS. If you drop in the final, you drop in the final. No help from the car, nothing at all. That's because you're not good enough or the course is too hard. Then you play it, then you play it good. But if a rider has a mechanical problem, 150 kilometers to go, nothing happens in the race. Please be a little bit flexible also. That was how to at least give the public the spectacle they deserve in the final.

SOREN JENSEN

Because on television, sometimes you see maybe a rider from another team being held up, as you said, to the rest of the caravan and to the group by other team cars. Sometimes you see television, they go on and focus on the rider just for one or two seconds, and then they cut to something different. But there will still be UCI commissars on the parkours, but it's something that you do to help riders because you also help riders from other teams, but also to bring something to the race. You don't want to lose some of the big main ferries

SOREN JENSEN

of the race just due to a rule or...

TOM STEELS

No, no, no. I mean, there has to be kind of a solidarity in the team cars, because also, I mean, if you have a flat tire, if you stopped for a natural break, those are not sportive elements. Then you usually, and also, I mean, then every sport director will help every rider out. Not important which team he is, or WorldTour team or Pro Continental, every rider will be helped. Even if a rider asks a bottle, if you are behind the brake and the team car is not there, they only have one car, then you also give them a bottle to help them out when it's hot and he's suffering.

TOM STEELS

And the other story is, if a rider gets dropped, then they have to be really strict. If a rider gets dropped, then you often see the boundaries that they still help or behind the car or whatever. That's not correct. If a rider drops and he's close to the time limit, out is out. I mean, of course, if it's snowing and hail, but then they're usually also flexible. But hanging on the car on the climb for two kilometers, that's not acceptable.

SOREN JENSEN

No, that's no-go.

SOREN JENSEN

Yeah.

TOM STEELS

Those things, there is a big, big difference between, even in bunch sprint, there is a big difference between what you can and cannot do. But there are four other rules, but it's a thin line, it's a grey zone. And you have to have that, yeah... Some commentators really have an excellent feeling. They feel the race, they make good decisions. You can talk to them also, you can discuss with them. You can tell your story, we also hear their story.

TOM STEELS

Because it's also a different world for us. But some commentators, yeah, their power sometimes is not... It doesn't bring the best out of people sometimes.

SOREN JENSEN

And then of course, if something should change in the overall, then you also have the counterpart from other teams going to the conferences, talking there, I mean, then it's becoming one big discussion. But it's funny you should say this also about in the bunch sprints, so keeping your line. I just had the pictures of early 90s, Abdul-Dabarov, when he was doing his sprinting and he would be a little bit like pushing and everything. Even Eric Szabo, you remember, you've been sprinting against him, I'm sure, and we're racing against him. 9 He did the same.

SOREN JENSEN

He did the same, but maybe with the head or shoulders and the arms out. Yeah, a lot of things have changed. You know, I've changed both the rules, the mentality on those guys, and that's the way they race. Those are the way that sometimes you just lean up against another rider just because that,

SOREN JENSEN

I mean, it's not to hurt the other person. Maybe just using your balance, you're leaning up, just to get yourself back aligned again. So, yeah.

TOM STEELS

Yeah, it's a thin line. I mean, one of the things I always did, like you say, if I knew a rider was coming, because he was maybe also pushed away, I already brought my shoulder to him. Because the sooner you touch shoulders, even if he pushes you a little bit away, you still stay on the straight line.

TOM STEELS

Yeah, it's difficult to say. I mean, as a sprinter in that environment, you see everything. You see a shadow, you listen, you follow every move, you're so sharp. Even now I cannot imagine that I ever did it. But if you think about it back, your body is so sensitive about a lot of stuff. But one thing is always clear, if a rider really moves from his line, I can say directly that's on purpose or not.

SOREN JENSEN

Yeah.

TOM STEELS

Because you're so, you're so aware of what you're doing that it's, it's silly to say, I didn't know that he was coming. Oh, I didn't know it. Oh, oh yeah. Sorry. But yeah, no, that's bullshit. You're so aware of everything around you that you can say directly, this is on purpose or this is not on purpose.

TOM STEELS

And even if it's on purpose, sometimes you feel like I'm gonna win, I'm gonna win and somebody comes and you have that instinct to go to the right. But then as a DDS you have to say, listen, if you win or lose, if you win you have to be clear, but you never win by doing stuff where you hurt a colleague or you do it in a way that you say this is not correct. Because on the long term, you will lose more than you win.

SOREN JENSEN

But that's the job of a DS.

TOM STEELS

It's interesting to hear.

SOREN JENSEN

And also interesting. I like, I like to hear from your point of view, coming with your many years of experience, because you bring a lot of very important points to the table here. What about helping cyclists in general, but also about being the perfect all round DS, because that's what you need. Well, you need, of course you need your colleagues also.

TOM STEELS

I mean, I have, I have my things, other colleagues here differently and you try always to find your... But the rider itself, seeing a long-term career for a rider, protect him when necessary, for instance when he doesn't fit, of course that's together with the doctor, but also say, okay, go out. Even a race is never so important as your health. Correct. If you have to go out, you have to go out. I mean, you rest two weeks and you restart again in another race. A race is a race. And we have the luxury in our sport, there are many races. If you go to the Olympics as a, I don't know, a marathon runner,

TOM STEELS

maybe you have four chances a year. Yeah. We have 80 chances a year. So it's, it's, and the health of the rider that we also always have to protect and just to get the best out of the rider. And I learned from the package as done and we tried to get it better. But yeah, we are not, we're also not musicians. I mean, some riders get a lot of their careers. Other riders are very good teammates. You know they can do better. But if you always push, push, push to get them better because you know they are better, at a certain point it also stops. And then the other rider who they are, and it's also okay. I mean, if they are fine with the results they do, and they are fine with the salary and their contract,

TOM STEELS

then it's also not up to us to keep on pushing. You can do it, you have to do it for young riders, and you have to do it on a certain stage. But if they're five, six, seven years professional, then they are the rider who they are.

SOREN JENSEN

And there's not much that you can change like that.

SOREN JENSEN

No.

SOREN JENSEN

Come down to my last three questions here. When you grew up in Belgium with cycling, who was your childhood

TOM STEELS

cycling idol or cycling hero? I must say, because I come from a totally different environment, cycling was not the main sport in our family. So I was the first to start with cycling. But I had the luxury, and I mean, it's a classic, I mean, as a Belgian, but I had the luxury to start in the team with the, let's say now we would say a Divo team, with the team of Eddy Merckx. And I had the pleasure at a young age, two persons, I must say. So you have Eddy Merckx, who was quite impressive, who was with us, involved, who changed our positions or made our bikes. He came to the race and he started to take a key on...

SOREN JENSEN

So he was part of this.

TOM STEELS

He was part of the race. I was lucky to ride with this song, top guy. 4 Absolutely.

TOM STEELS

And I also had the luxury to work with Patrick Sercu, who was, yeah, six day king. He was my first coach, to be honest, on the track, but also on the road. I learned a lot from him. And I also learned the winning mentality of him. So yeah, I had really the luxury of working with two, well, one of the nice persons, but to be honest, also winners.

TOM STEELS

And they shaped my... Of course, with Eddie it was really nice to meet him and to see what character can do and how much passion he built the bikes and who was involved with us, but who are we against him? I mean, and then with Patrick Serk, we had a lot of nice times together and they developed also my career. But as a young kid, neither, to be honest, I didn't have.

SOREN JENSEN

You didn't have any. Maybe it's also good. I mean, it gives a different perspective. Also showing that cycling is not everything.

TOM STEELS

No, and you start with the white page.

SOREN JENSEN

I really didn't know anything. You didn't follow cycling at all before Warsaw?

TOM STEELS

No, I didn't. I really, I mean, I rode a bike that my father bought on a second hand market. Was not even a race bike. I mean, but it's good. For me, it was good. But I still remember, and you don't remember everything, but I still remember my first race.

TOM STEELS

I had to put on my race pants and I was looking at what are they doing? How do they put cream on or not? I just didn't know anything.

SOREN JENSEN

Anything. Yeah. You were learning it by doing. Yeah. Probably the best school you can have. But just like you said before, with Eddy, apart from being one of the best cyclist of cycling history. I spent some time also in Belgium and at one of the Kermes races I was out doing in Leuven, Eddie was sitting there.

SOREN JENSEN

I didn't know that, but I was in the breakaway until the last 20 kilometers got dropped and like just dropped out of the race completely after. Went back to the bar, we need to give back your race number. And this guy behind me, he says, first he talked to me, I don't know if it was French or Flemish, I can't remember, but afterwards he found out I was a stranger, a foreigner,

SOREN JENSEN

and he told me, hey, hand back your number and come to my table here and join me for a beer. And I turned around and I looked at Eddie Merckx, I was like, no way, are you talking to me or to someone else? And that's it, I mean, came to his, I don't know what you call it, Stamtisch, or what you call it. He was just there watching the local Kermit's race.

SOREN JENSEN

And I remember being such a gentleman that I came back to, we were staying up in Waschmünster in an old hostel. 7 Is that your place, yeah?

SOREN JENSEN

Really?

TOM STEELS

I live 10 kilometers from there.

SOREN JENSEN

It's in Niklas, yeah.

TOM STEELS

Yeah, that's where I play, yeah.

SOREN JENSEN

Nice. And I remember telling everyone else there from the team and other riders that I just had to be able to emerge. And they're like, yeah, well, don't believe you. Like, such a gentleman.

TOM STEELS

What I really was most impressed about his character. We were with the Olympic team in Lanzarote and he was our coach. So we were there and the coach of the national team was also there. Ronnie van Maak was also a former rider and they rode together. And the first day, apparently, Eddie didn't have the best legs, but talking was also already stopped many years. And the second day he came back, but red, sweating. And then he said,

TOM STEELS

if he thinks he's going to hurt me every day, he's wrong. So even if he was out of condition, his character took over just to show he was still the best. 6 Nice.

TOM STEELS

And we have a doctor in the team, Joris, who really rides a lot with him. 6 Yeah.

TOM STEELS

He has such a character. He can hurt himself so much, which is a quality, to be honest, which you see with the best. They can hurt, they can suffer so much pain. But that's really the first time I saw that even if you're stopped, even if you won everything, it's in your genes.

SOREN JENSEN

It's in your genes. As you said earlier, you're right. If you're a real racehorse, you're a real racehorse for life. So two last questions. What is your first Castelli memory? If there are any. Could those be a Castelli team from the days that you were racing or a garment you got later on.

TOM STEELS

I rode with, yeah, of course, the two Belgian teams. I rode with Moppe, but that was, I think, Sportfool.

SOREN JENSEN

That was Sportfool, yeah. Sportfool for a few years, then Centennial later. Yeah, Centennial later, but Sportfool. I think when you won the nationals, it was for Sportfool, because I think we have your jersey, actually your signed jersey in the office. 5 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

TOM STEELS

Yeah. That was with Sportfool, yeah, yeah. Yeah, then I was here with the team, I think. But also that evolution is incredible.

SOREN JENSEN

Yeah, it's changed and it keeps changing. Now we're going back to the tunnel with Remco to do some more air testing for the tour.

TOM STEELS

Yeah, but that also is such a high technology.

SOREN JENSEN

It is, yeah.

TOM STEELS

I mean, if I take my bike and I put on a cover, and nowadays it was like 15 layers just to stay warm. Now you just put one jacket on, one underlay and you go. It's 30 degrees, you're safe. It's impressive.

SOREN JENSEN

And sometimes I remember in the 90s when it was just pouring down, raining, then you put on a rain cape, no matter also if you knew that you couldn't really breathe. But all the rain was maybe just drizzling a little bit. Sometimes you would just not even put on the rain cape because you knew that the moisture would not be able to get out. So you're still gonna get wet and you will not no longer be aerodynamic.

SOREN JENSEN

You know, you just feel this like big parachute like pulling you back more than.

TOM STEELS

I still remember the first rider who had the character to put on a TT suit in the race. Was a guy from, I think it was a guy from Özkatral, around Jersey. And we looked at him and we said, what's he going to do? And everybody started to laugh at him because he didn't even have the pockets. I mean, he was just... But then you see, okay, there always has to be some guy who starts with it. And at the end, nowadays, aerodynamics is so important because it's a big surface.

SOREN JENSEN

I can't remember, but I have to look it up. But I read in a cycling book a long time ago about, I think it was Grelin Monn, who in the 80s showed up to a road race wearing a TT suit. I think it was him or Andy Hampton, one of the Americans. I think it was Greg. But no, you're right. And then it just disappeared. And then it came up then with Oskar Tell and...

TOM STEELS

Yeah, just, yeah. And it's nowadays, I must say, many riders say, aero is everything.

SOREN JENSEN

I mean, even look at the narrow handlebars, they're maybe a little bit too narrow sometimes with the braking levers pointed in.

TOM STEELS

I mean, nowadays, if you get onto a bike, bike and clothing, you just ride with the same effort. You have the feeling at least you go three, four, five kilometers faster, which is incredible. If you know how much power it takes to go five kilometers faster.

SOREN JENSEN

Oh yeah, completely. But also that mental thing, the placebo effect that comes in because when we, with our sister brand Sportful, their first year sponsoring Saxo Bank, we were down, Steve and I and Sonja down in Forteventura and then also talking to Bjarne Ries because I had Fabian Cancellara asking for longer legs, so longer shorts, and if you could get his aero shoe covers with the top riding Spartacus in gold. I remember Bjarne was like, you're not gonna get longer legs

SOREN JENSEN

and we're not gonna ride Spartacus in gold. And then, you know, he kept on asking, Fabian asking. And then one day then, Bjarne, he called me and said, hey, just for the tour, that was the tour where he won, he probably won it anyway, the Prologue, and took the yellow jersey. He told us, hey, on those Fabian shoe covers, just ride Spartacus, but just in small, in gold. And you would see he's going to go, like you said, those 5, 10, 20 watts faster.

TOM STEELS

You never see a rider anymore putting the clothing on just by putting in the mud. I mean, if they put the aerosol on, they really use the spray. They see if the sleeves are okay. Before a TT, it's really, yeah, it's also part of the game.

SOREN JENSEN

Yeah, it is. What is the biggest, now we're talking about clothing, fashion crime you have seen in cycling. Like the worst look, or the worst thing could also be like now we have high socks because back in the day when you were racing, there was just a standard height, but then they just became longer and longer and longer.

TOM STEELS

I must say, it doesn't look that great, I must say. But you know, it's good, it's fast. It's just with us, we are grown up with white socks, low white socks. 5 Correct.

TOM STEELS

Yeah, it's different. Yeah. Even if you see the riders coming out of the bus with short pants and their long socks on for recovery, it's a strange sight. But okay, it is what it is.

SOREN JENSEN

It's part of cycling today.

TOM STEELS

It's part of cycling, yeah.

SOREN JENSEN

But I do agree with you. I'm more on the old team when it comes to how to dress. I mean, it has to be white socks. They can be a little bit higher, it still looks nice. White socks, white shoes, you know, just the black shorts, just keep it there. Or at least dark colors, keep it classy. And stick to tradition, so hopefully we're not gonna see

SOREN JENSEN

any more of the only for only world champions anymore, white, big shorts in this room. I mean, it's just terrible, you know, when it rains.

TOM STEELS

So, you also have to respect it, but okay.

SOREN JENSEN

I think it's okay for a world champion.

TOM STEELS

Yeah, for a world champion it is.

SOREN JENSEN

So, yeah.

TOM STEELS

That's the only one that can be added.

SOREN JENSEN

Exactly. Tom, thank you so much for taking the time to, we have been on for a long time, almost an hour and 15 minutes, but thank you so much. It's been a pleasure talking to you, and I'm sure that all our listeners here, they picked up a lot of interesting stuff here. I can't wait to share this episode with the rest of the world.

SOREN JENSEN

It was really good. Thank you. Thank you so much. Let's go down and get some food now. It's already getting late. Yeah. We will do that. Okay. Okay.

SOREN JENSEN

Thank you.